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Voice against injustice to ca-final, november 2013 students

Page no : 5

zoom_7155 (audit) (16 Points)
Replied 21 January 2014

@ Hari,

 Are you a CA? A total disgrace mate.Instead of supporting many people here you write such disgraceful posts.I pity you bugger.We all have our dreams.We all know most of us may achieve that and some of us may not but the language used by you bemoans your stature as a chartered Accountant.Get a life mate.I think you are one of those inept people who qualified by fluke and got found out in your job.

whose fault is it if those recently qualified CA's didnt get a job? You have your views but you have no busines in a democracy to tell us to shut up. .....

 

 



CA student (CA Final) (404 Points)
Replied 21 January 2014

ICAI had made few papers tough in Nov 13 to decline results but they may not be expecting students will be able to clear even such tough papers because CA students are always hardworking. May be earlier 3 out of 10 study but now 7 out of 10 study day n night for clearing finals.

Kunal Jain (CA Job) (28 Points)
Replied 21 January 2014

But if there is any confusion students can obtain there marksheet from the institute. This I know as per informed to me.

Shwetha R (CA ) (377 Points)
Replied 21 January 2014

Guys no fight…

Lets support the post for the purpose for which they have made. There are various students for deserve to be CA, but unfortunately ICAI rewards them as fail every time for the dedication that is given by the students. May of them like us are still struggling as to not knowing of what mistake we have made on strategy as to we have given our 100% to the studies. Is this luck ?? or ICAI financial stragy ?? we not even know properly…….Instead of declaring the 3% result,they could have said that no CA’s are required for this year, so that we cud have concentrated on others by leaving this CA… We are not able to move forward nor leave CA……….All our friends have got settled & we still struggling here………they have made our life hell………..If we put for verification also, the same answer as to “NO CHANGE”.. :’(

I completely support the post & also for the voice raised… Thanks for making this post…..Institute are not there to hear our tears.. :’(



(Guest)

My marks   Grp 1      FR    Expected 45     Got 44

                                SFM Epected 70       Got 64

                                Audit Expected 50     Got 51

                               Law Expected 50       Got 46

As grp 1 finished, i knew i will pass. FR was toughest. Everyone was saying " pass hi nai ho skte". But loose marking was given in FR. I know i was giving myself marks like i myself will check my Paper :P giving marks everywhere...N i got exact 44... Grp1 Expected PASS Got PASS

 

Grp2             AMA Expected 50   Got 48

                   ISCA Expected 50    Got 30

                    DT    Expected  40    Got 39

                   IDT Expected     45     Got 42

I knew i will fail in Grp2 ..Result was same.. Only SLASHING/ MANIPULATION was done in ISCA... 

 

There is so much hue and cry about marks...but i am seriously requesting every1..start preparing again..KUCH NAI KR SKTE HUM ICAI K AGAINST

And I failed 3 times in grp 1 when result was 20+ %...BECAUSE THERE WAS FAULT IN MY PREPARATION..FYI I AM A BELOW AVERAGE STUDENT




chitrasen parida (CA Final Student) (99 Points)
Replied 21 January 2014

Dear Hammad,

Pls. ask which books u followed for SFM.

Pls.Pls.Pls. Mention the Study strategy for SFM Only.  


MEENA (accounts executive) (70 Points)
Replied 21 January 2014

Yaar how much more times we will compromise,, it seems like we are stuck up in this course niether able to clear this exam nor able to concentrate in job look guys what we are suffering our respected icai president and all those decision maker will never ever understand they will do what they want to do and with no choice left we are again force to study


(Guest)

I did only JB Gupta's Book

It is Bit too much..But when ICAI gives Back breaking Paper..This book helps...

There are 2 types of Paper

1. Normal Paper- Familiar Questions,Easy theory- Can be done with Practice manual or Pattabhi( Snow White Book ) or any other standard Book.

2. Tough Paper- Unseen Questions( we feel questions came from UK..hahaha ), Difficult theory- Do JB gupta..It is in Notes form. It will help in Normal as well as TOUGH paper.

Tips for JB Gupta.. Start with Last Chapter ..Chp 20 to 1..

On the last day... do RTPs..4 attempts...Thats it...and on the day of Xam ...only revise theory...only theory...AND start paper with theory Question..Q7..

Good Luck


MEENA (accounts executive) (70 Points)
Replied 21 January 2014

But how know that which type paper will come in may 2014

Suraj Singh (Article) (60 Points)
Replied 21 January 2014

Originally posted by : zoom_7155
@ Hari,

 Are you a CA? A total disgrace mate.Instead of supporting many people here you write such disgraceful posts.I pity you bugger.We all have our dreams.We all know most of us may achieve that and some of us may not but the language used by you bemoans your stature as a chartered Accountant.Get a life mate.I think you are one of those inept people who qualified by fluke and got found out in your job.

whose fault is it if those recently qualified CA's didnt get a job? You have your views but you have no busines in a democracy to tell us to shut up. .....

 

 

Agreed disgrace he is. Not competent enough to get a job so he doesnt want more competetion. He must have cleared by fluke.

Getting a Job is upto an Individual it doesnt depend on CA results. In the name of Economy ICAI is playing game. No institute in the world clear less student coz of market scenerio. It is just that students have a wait for some time to get a job but if they have necessary skills....they get it.

In our case whatever we do ICAI doesnt care. We have ambitions, dreams but they stop us from moving forward. The council members cant even speak proper english, the are good for nothing or you can say good only in manipulation and money making.




Suresh (Student) (66 Points)
Replied 21 January 2014

Originally posted by : Shyam C.Pujara
Hieeee All

The Better way s to restrict the results at CPT level only f the wants to maintan standards so students cand decide wether to carry on further of to drop......so that precious years of the students dont get spolied

We already included this clause in our letter that we sent to the ICAI later. Thank you for your opinion Mr. Shyam.


Suresh (Student) (66 Points)
Replied 21 January 2014

Thank you all for your support. It is really encouraging to know that there are so many aggrieved students who can rise and join in.

There is another copy of the letter that we sent to the ICAI with some changes made, thus making the draft of the letter even better. It includes the fact as to how that there is a deliberate discrepancy between the pattern of the CPT exam(objective type) and Final exam(subjective type) and the way the ICAI contributes in spoiling the careers of enthusiastic students who get stuck in one stage of the course or the other and are not able to pass the CA-Final exam despite being able to pass CPT as the scope of manipulating the marks is absent in an objective type pattern whereas it is the maximum in the case of subjective type pattern of exams. The following is the revised letter sent to the ICAI-

 

               We, the aggrieved students of the Institute of Chartered Accountants of India who appeared for the CA-Final Examination held in November 2013 would like to convey to you with utmost respect that our result of the aforesaid examination is not a true reflection of what our answer scriptts contain and does not show the true picture of our performance. It is known that the pass percentage of the aforementioned examination is the least in the past decade the figures with respect to which can be noted in Table (A) in the Annexure attached to this letter. It seems as if a special message was given to the examiners and moderators so as to direct them towards not awarding fair marks to the candidates as against what has been done in the previous attempts of the examination.

It is to be noted that there is a huge flaw in the subjective or narrative pattern of examination which is that the examiners as guided by their higher authorities have full discretion as regards the manner in which they wish to correct the answer scriptts of the candidates. For example, if highest marks that a question contains is say, 10 then it is the discretion of the examining authorities if they wish to award 3/10 or 7/10 or any other number as per their discretion. It hasn’t been proven legally but it is visible that this time the answer scriptts have been marked very strictly so as to restrict the pass percentage of the aforementioned examination and thus, instead of giving 7/10 a 3/10 has been awarded deliberately to curtail the result percentage. Not even closely do our marks in any subject correspond to what has been written by us in the answer scriptts of the aforementioned examinations.  A conspiracy is visible that to reduce the supply of Chartered Accountants in the market actual marks that the candidates deserve have not been awarded in the examinations and the results have been deliberately compromised.

We have absolutely no way out at this point as the facility of reevaluation of answer scriptts is not available to the candidates. The facility of only verification of marks is available in which recalculation or rechecking of total of marks awarded is done which is not the apt remedy in this case.  It is disappointing to know that there is absolutely no system devised by the ICAI, which has a team of best intellectuals throughout the world to provide the students enough transparency to challenge the result that wrongly represents their performance in the examinations. At present, reevaluation of the answer scriptts can only be sought if one goes to a Court of law which is not advisable as we all know that the pursuit of justice in the Indian courts of law suffers from chronic delays and by that time next attempt of the CA-Final Examination will arrive.

Our parents have stopped us from disclosing our names or registration numbers or roll numbers or to join any protest against the actions of the ICAI. We all are aware that the ICAI has the absolute power to manipulate the result in the next attempt of the CA-Final Examination or impede the process of awarding Certificates of Practice to those aggrieved candidates who protest and even give a legally justified background to it. This is what scares us all and thus it seems as if we are the slaves and the ICAI our master.

The ICAI teaches us lessons of ethics and morality which is incorporated in the syllabi of our course but what can be comprehended now is that the same ethics are being compromised here by the ICAI itself by manipulating the result pattern just like one regulates the regulator of a kitchen stove to control the production of Chartered Accountants in the market in whichever way the Institute wishes to.

We would like to bring to your notice that we all are doing our active articleship in different cities of India. We are not enrolled as dummies and we do not agree with the logic given by CA Subodh Kumar Agrawal, the President of the ICAI that there is ‘no extraneous reason for slippage in pass percentage’ and that the candidates who failed the examination lack a ‘practical knowledge’ of the subjects. We are aggrieved, innocent students who have become victims of a policy decision which was unfortunately taken in this attempt of the examination and not in the previous attempts which is evident from the percentage of result of this attempt as compared to the previous attempts. The result percentage this time, i.e., November 2013 in the case of both the groups of CA-Final Examination was 3.11%, as regards May 2013 was 10.03%, as regards Nov. 2012 was 21.85%, as regards May 2012 was 16.38%, as regards Nov. 2011 was 15.78 and with respect to May 2011 was 20.51%(Kindly refer Table (B) in the Annexure attached to this letter). A question arises as to what happened all of a sudden that the pass percentage went down to a shocking 3.11%? Similar questions have been put forth to various Council members of the Institute including CA Subodh Kumar Agrawal, the President of the ICAI by the media the answers to which have not been quite satisfactory.

We would also like to draw your attention to the way the ICAI contributes in spoiling the professional lives of the enthusiastic students. The candidates who wish to attain the professional degree of Chartered Accountancy appear for the CA-entrance test (Common Proficiency Test or CPT) and are easily able to pass it.  Atleast 30% of the candidates pass this exam in every attempt as can be observed from the numbers stated in Table (C) of the Annexure attached to the letter. It is the advantage of the objective type pattern of the CPT exam that there is no scope for the examiner to exercise his discretion in awarding marks and this helps the intellectually capable students appearing for the exam to pass it. It can be easily gathered that the object sought to achieve by setting an objective type pattern and not a subjective type pattern of only the CPT exam in the entire course of chartered accountancy is that more students should enroll for the course and the revenue should keep flowing into the Institute by means of registration and exam fee. But what is deplorable is that as the student passes CPT and further the Intermediate stage of the course, undergoes 3 years of articleship and finally qualifies to appear for the final stage of the Examinations- CA Final, the Institute restricts the pass percentage to a very low number by deliberately manipulating the result of the examination in comparison with that of CPT. If capping of the result and restriction of pass percentage is what the Institute wants to achieve then why is the same done in the Final stage of the course and not the CPT stage? Ideally it should be done at the CPT stage itself so that atleast the students’ years of hard work does not go waste as can be seen presently and if he fails, he does so in the beginning of the course and he is atleast able to decide whether he still wants to pursue the same or not. The present system is a booby trap atleast for mediocre students who are stuck in one stage of the course or the other and are not able to complete the course by failing in the final stage of the course thus making the years of hard work the students put in meaningless. Consistency in the examination and marking pattern throughout the course, from CPT stage to CA-Final stage, is what is needed to expel irregularities from the system.

We, as students are taught the lessons of equity and justice in the syllabi of Chartered Accountancy but we do not understand as to why the same seem missing from the way the CA-Final candidates have been treated this time. It is not expected of a body like the Institute of Chartered Accountants of India to show such injustice to their students.

Therefore, we humbly request you to reevaluate the answer scriptts of all the candidates who appeared for the CA-Final Examinations held in November 2013 in an unbiased, just and transparent manner so as to not manipulate the result deliberately, and see the change. If all auditing tools are applied by the ICAI in reevaluation of the result of these exams, we guarantee that a changed picture will come out thus reflecting the true image of the performance of the candidates. It will thus enhance the credibility of the institute. It is also requested that a system of reevaluation of the answer scriptts be devised for bringing about transparency in the way the answer scriptts are marked by various examiners.

We further request you to apply the objective type pattern in CA examinations which is applied in the examinations conducted in the course of Chartered Financial Analyst (U.S.A.) or in the UGC-NET examination where there is no flaw of discretion of the examiner in awarding marks as noticed in the subjective type pattern of examinations.

We are more than one lakh students who are aggrieved but none of us has the courage to come forward in the picture because we have already completed the Intermediate stage of the course and at this point we can’t risk spoiling our career by confronting the Institute we study under. It is requested to kindly show mercy on us and accede to our request of reevaluation as mentioned above. There is another big question that emanates from the treatment given to CA-Final candidates in this attempt- What is the guarantee that such an act will not be repeated by the ICAI in May 2014 and further the attempts to come? It is this unanswered question that is haunting every CA-Final candidate at the moment who wishes to appear for the same exam in the next attempt despite being fully prepared for the examination which he was in the current attempt as well.

If the Institute assures us that our prayer as mentioned above will be acceded to and reevaluation of the answer scriptts will be done in the prescribed manner, we promise to disclose to you our CA registration numbers.

We are a part of the Institute and therefore it is our duty to exhaust all the measures internally available to us before seeking justice externally through the courts of law, hence we write this letter to you. It is very easy to learn that internally, within the ICAI there are agents at play that control the result of the candidates of examinations so as to regulate the supply of the Chartered Accountants in the market and the same can easily be elucidated to the general public if a Court order directs an internal scrutiny regarding the same. This would further deteriorate the credibility of the Institute internationally. Thereby, waiting for your reply we humbly request you to accede to our aforementioned request.

Thanking you,

Yours faithfully,

Aggrieved students of the ICAI.

2 Like

MEENA (accounts executive) (70 Points)
Replied 21 January 2014

When this letter will be sent

Suresh (Student) (66 Points)
Replied 21 January 2014

Originally posted by : MEENA
When this letter will be sent

Already sent Meena.





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