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Dummy articled clerks

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CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26258 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

  • VIEWS OF OTHERS AT FACEBOOK :
     
    Gopal Singh Negi true hai !!!!!!!!!!!! but responsible bhi hum log hai !!!!!!!
  • Ca Surendra Rakhecha If we are responsible knowing this; means we are wonder"fool."
  • Saiyan Ekkeri Hats off to this Status Sir,U r correct As many student cleared their exams in one shot but could not find a good n sophisticated job.The only reason is they dont have Practical knowledge.
  • Deepak A Saxena baat to theek hai sir aapki. bt ca b to is type k h aj jo paise lekar dummy allow kr dete h. kya humari governing body ICAI ko inke against kuch nhi krna chahiye. kya inka membership nhi cencel honi chahiye.??????
  • Ca Surendra Rakhecha That's why I am asking for investigation of CAs...just read the first line of the post.
  • Deepak A Saxena oh. sorry sir...
  • Ca Surendra Rakhecha Not an issue... we have to be open minded.
  • Ca Surendra Rakhecha Many students take articleship at small villages/towns...then come to cities for TUITION (NOT COACHING) ...enjoying rest of the day....making fool to their parents as if they are DOING A GREAT JOB.
  • Ca Surendra Rakhecha The passing ratio of such students is the same who resort to self study....a meagre difference may be found...of course; coaching is helpful when it is given INDIVIDUALLY....focusing on the weaknesses of the students..
  • Ca Surendra Rakhecha Majority of Coaching Classes TEACH how to remain DEPENDENT ON COACHING....see this picture very carefully....
    Ca Surendra Rakhecha's photo.
  • CA Ravikumar Kandalla Good suggestion. Another peer review assignment for CAs. But some thing has to be done to lift the image of the profession. I also hear IITans also do very badly in their first job.
  • Ca Surendra Rakhecha It happens to those who are not serious about their career and remain engaged in FUN; using FUNDS of parents and then lacking in FUNDAMENTALS....What to say about their MENTAL STATUS despite having all the facilities!
  • CA Ravikumar Kandalla No the problem is slightly different. I had an opportunity of handling about 35 articles in a medium sized firm. 90% of the students managed attending and doing very well in the audits and also attending coaching classes in morning and evening and surprisingly cleared in first or second attempt in the final. But the other 10% never bothered about audits except going to audit places but they were not dummy articles but shabby work and others needed to take care and they failed in exam 4 - 5 times and few could not complete the exam. I used to tell them those who manage both studies and the audit work will be successful in exam and also in career. All of them are well placed with big 5 firms now. Yes Dummy articles are to be investigated with the records in Auditor's office.
  • Ca Surendra Rakhecha The result is : Who don't RESPECT their work; find no RESPECT.
  • CA Ravikumar Kandalla True. Passing the exam will not give the advantage they thought of.
  • Ca Surendra Rakhecha Views on the issue at other site : /forum/dummy-articled-clerks-255818.asp
    www.caclubindia.com
    IT IS HIGH TIME TO DO INVESTIGATION OF QUALIFIED CHARTERED ACCOUNTANTS WHO HAD A...See More
  • Prem Chhetri don't worry...NFRA is coming very soon. over smart CAs will go down very soon.
  • Ankit Hinduja I fully support ur views sir. Some strict actions against such students nd Ca's will restrict others to indulge in such activities. As students are unaware of the outcome they will have to face after qualifying, they happily opt for dummy articleship.
  • Ankit Hinduja Sir, i am sharing with you an experience of one of my friend. He opted for dummy articleship. ( reason -he's not financially sound, low stipend. Started articleship as per direct entry scheme ) He joined other Ca firm for full time job on basis of B.com
  • Ca Surendra Rakhecha I also know such case. One Rankholder got articleship at Delhi and worked at Bangalore on good pay with business firm.
  • Ankit Hinduja Sir, now the situation is... his principle who provided him dummy articleship , forced him to continue his articleship..else he would take action against my friend...nd my friend says he wont do so....nd will complain against his principle that he provides dummy articleship .....Also , he's still in ipcc...not cleared single group...nd 1.5 yrs of articleship is already over
  • Ca Surendra Rakhecha Seems the CA also did dummy initially.... that's why he is unable to tackle this issue.
  • Ankit Hinduja Ha ha... ......nd sir, my friend is not only pursuing Ca, but he's also pursuing M.com , MBA ( distance learning)....nd is now confused...where to go...what to do....now this seems like wonder "fool" situation
     
    Ca Surendra Rakhecha Most of the CA students think to complete all the courses available in the world ! and...surprisingly they are able to complete all the courses.....except CA..which they joined BRAVELY. THE ULTIMATE CREDIT GOES TO ICAI!

 



CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26258 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

 


CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26258 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

 


amit popli (Accounts Manager) (430 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

CA Institute should reduce the articleship period from 3 years to 1 years or  CA(FInal) Exam course should be reduced so that the students will not be pressurised and start dummy training and concentrate on studies. Many students did dummy training,  I think because of pressure of CA(Final)  Exam .  CA Institute divert  the pressure of CA(Final)  Exam   on practical  Training. Exam  should  not  be tough . Such  kind of strategy  should be adopted  so that   the  students will   concentrate on practical  training and not  on  ca  Exams.    Mostly students do dummy training because of Pressure of CA(Final) Exam ,  I think  ITS  VERY  VERY VERY VERY BAD .  BUT  I THINK  CA INSTITUTE  COULD DIVERT  THE PRESSURE OF CA FINAL EXAM  TO PRACTICAL  TRAINING BY MAKING STRATEGIES.

 

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(Guest)

Agreed Sir

                          the strange thing is that , if you do articles we can survive for lifetime with such free of cost experience..

1 Like



Budding Professional (B.Com, CA & CS FINAL) (1686 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

If the members become strict and not let themselves being lenient with the articles in terms of leave and office timings, then I think that would be the most effective solution. And members are well within their rights to do so.

 

I am not saying that the lives of articles should be made hell, but the minimum prescribed standards should be strictly followed.

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CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26258 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

Originally posted by : anand

sir,

i totally disagree with  your points.. Its not fully correct.. I know many of my friends ahving superb working knowledge as well a softskills still not getting any calls for interview (why to name others; your own record confirms this cheeky)
anand NO JOB [ Scorecard : 168]

Read more at: /forum/details.asp?mod_id=255818&offset=5
anand NO JOB [ Scorecard : 168]

Read more at: /forum/details.asp?mod_id=255818&offset=5

 Only when we get a job call we can show our caliber / working knowledge..

Dont just simply blame him to be useless in work.

Now there are lot of CA s available in the market.

Some are even ready to work for 10000 rs also...

FIRST AND FOREMOST THING IS TO CONTROL THE RESULTS

TODAY A CA = B.COM, MBA, ENGINEERS, CWA ,CS

 

The reasons of the above situations might be due to :

1. Assuming that he is living in a small town/city and not ready to "SELL" himself at another city. (Everyone wants JOB and job means "selling" your professional skills).

2. He is not ready to compromise with the salary which he has fixed for himself.

3. What he has learned two years back; might be outdated. For example; he would not find himself fit to file even TDS retrun and its rectification process, XBRL, Domestic Transfer Pricing in Taxation and recent amendments in Service Tax.

4. If he is good in communication skills; then he can easily join/open i) coaching institute ii) spoken english class.

5. His financial position is good and his parents are not ready to accept a job at lower salary which is generally offered now-a-days to fresh CAs.

6.I advise him to approach a practising CA during peak hours of his professional work (Please don't ask when such peak hours happen...he is experienced one). Surely he will get work and will be absorbed.

Many more....the discussion would go endless....

 


 


CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26258 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

Your record :

anand

NO JOB

[scoredcard :168]

/profile.asp?member_id=118305


CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26258 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

Originally posted by : amit popli

CA Institute should reduce the articleship period from 3 years to 1 years or  CA(FInal) Exam course should be reduced so that the students will not be pressurised and start dummy training and concentrate on studies. Many students did dummy training,  I think because of pressure of CA(Final)  Exam .  CA Institute divert  the pressure of CA(Final)  Exam   on practical  Training. Exam  should  not  be tough . Such  kind of strategy  should be adopted  so that   the  students will   concentrate on practical  training and not  on  ca  Exams.    Mostly students do dummy training because of Pressure of CA(Final) Exam ,  I think  ITS  VERY  VERY VERY VERY BAD .  BUT  I THINK  CA INSTITUTE  COULD DIVERT  THE PRESSURE OF CA FINAL EXAM  TO PRACTICAL  TRAINING BY MAKING STRATEGIES.
 

 

1. I think CA students would be happy if option is given for NO TRAINING.

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2. Looking to the vast syllabus; even a training of 5 years would be insufficient to cover all the subjects. ( I agree for so only when transfer is allowed every year to get exposure in different fields). See point no. 3 also for this argument.

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3. Today a student can complete CA in the age of 21 i.e. at the same age when he can complete Graduation. For master's degree; 2 more years are required. Majority of students don't like training because they are already engaged in College Life pursuing Graduation; Coaching, Training and Study at home.

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Why students join B.Com. Regular  when they have already joined CA and knowing the shortage of time?

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It is surprising that even college administration  allows  them to do graduation on regular basis knowing clearly that students would be unable to attend who have joined professional courses.

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They allow REGULARL ATTENDANCE (AGAIN DUMMY) by accepting  some "incentives" from the students at the time of issuing HALL TICKET.  

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If Colleges don't allow; the management has fear of NOT GETTING THE SUFFICIENT NUMBER OF STUDENTS and thus SITUATIONS may ARISE TO CLOSE THE COLLEGE

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(as has happened to  MBA colleges....more than 250 colleges are closed so far after 2010.

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4. I am of opinion that during trianing period there should be NO CA EXAMS and CA Final exams should be allowed only 6 months later when  ARTICLESHIP TRAINING is likely to  complete.

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(Otherwise student will ask for 6 MONTHS LEAVES when their training is likely to complete i.e. within training period).

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I fear none of the point would be acceptable to the students although these are for the betterment of their CAREER.

 

1 Like

CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26258 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

I have already sent various suggestions to ICAI on 31 01 2013 (no response so far): 

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RESTRUCTURING OF CA PROFESSION

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which are now being published at caclub (so far 2 parts )

.

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I need support of members and students. I also invite CONSTRUCTIVE SUGGESTIONS (suggestions not of the type which provides some easy modes because the CA profession is always remained challenging and in future also it will remain so- right now we are facing so many challenges (proved).

..

The links of the above articles :

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RESTRUCTURING OF CA PROFESSION

.

.

/articles/restructuring-of-ca-profession-part-i-17867.asp:

.

.

/articles/restructuring-of-ca-profession-part-ii-17868.asp

 

.

 

1 Like



Ravi Kumar Prajapati (CA FINAL) (766 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

Suggestion for preventing from dummy articles According to me : 

1. There Should be additional  compulsory exam including the CA papers which consist  of practicle life Case. like

They should give work to students to file the returns of taxation works & finanalisation of accounts etc. and capital market training and Hand on  experince of SAP ERP packages and all this thing must be mandatory for a qualified chartered accountant. if agree then comment

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Rohit (CA-Final) (1485 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

 

 

Praveen Sharma Sir (very popular among students of CA IPCC and CA Final in North India) on Articleship on last Sunday.


Saibal-B.com LLB CA FINAL (Indirect Taxation) (145 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

Dear Sir

 

What you trying to say is 100% correct  but why the institute is not working on stipends , presently stipends are very low , and moreover the students who has has very less resource of their parents have to suffer more for low stipends , better we all should think practically we all live in society and our society is mixed up higher class  , middle class n lower class .to be more specific raise the stipends .further there should be perfect ratio of industrial training n ca artcleship , in CA industrial training is for only 9 month infact it should be atleast 1.5 yrs by which students can learn more and also earn more.


CA Bharat kumar (Practice) (622 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

Both should get punished given CA, and taken student equally




Ganeshbabu K (Audit and Tax Advisory) (48559 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

Originally posted by : ravi kumar prajapati

Suggestion for preventing from dummy articles According to me : 

1. There Should be additional  compulsory exam including the CA papers which consist  of practicle life Case. like

They should give work to students to file the returns of taxation works & finanalisation of accounts etc. and capital market training and Hand on  experince of SAP ERP packages and all this thing must be mandatory for a qualified chartered accountant. if agree then comment

I guess there will be some practical problems in implementing this..recommendatons,

SAP and ERP packages...

articles working in small firms may not get this exposure..

And in many firms there is culture to keep articles limited to particular area..

For example a firm having bank audits will keep certain articles for bank audit only(concurrent audits)

One of my friend was working since 2 years in a single bank work of concurrent audit....in this case student is very much interested to work and get exposure on companies...But his principal was not accepting him to do so..and ordered to do what he alloted for ..yes..he working hopelessly,with out interest and lot of dissatisfaction..

Here the mistake was definetely on part of employer..Because here his firm is not a small firm..it is big firm having a big listed companies and so many good companies audits and he joined in that firm just because of reason that he will get exposure on those big companies

 

 

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