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Dummy articled clerks

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Ganeshbabu K (Audit and Tax Advisory) (48559 Points)
Replied 10 July 2013

Originally posted by : Mayur-CA FINAL

Dear Sir

 

What you trying to say is 100% correct  but why the institute is not working on stipends , presently stipends are very low , and moreover the students who has has very less resource of their parents have to suffer more for low stipends , better we all should think practically we all live in society and our society is mixed up higher class  , middle class n lower class .to be more specific raise the stipends .further there should be perfect ratio of industrial training n ca artcleship , in CA industrial training is for only 9 month infact it should be atleast 1.5 yrs by which students can learn more and also earn more.

In my opinion As of now ICAI neither interested to catch dummies not tying to increase stipend.

And regarding stipend since long back they telling that we will increase but it is not being done..

 

 

1 Like


CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26258 Points)
Replied 11 July 2013

If stipend is fixed for Rs.5000/- per month; the following situation may arise :

1. Those just passing CPT and IPCC at margin may not find training with a CA Firm.

2. Quality work will be allocated to the articled clerks.

3. If the work is not performed according to the standards set by the employer; he will be interested to  allow transfer.

4. Until an employer is not having sufficient work; he will not engage more articled clerks.

5. THREAT : A CA who is not having any work in reality; will employ such articled clerks who are not finding any firm for the training due to the increased stipend.

.

Now asking the students : are you really interested (please keep into your mind -you have to work according to the instructions of your employer strictly....no coaching during the office hours which are generally ranging from 10 am to 8 pm.

.

This way if the students gets the training; at least it is assured that he will not remain unemployed even if he is unable to qualify CA Final.

2 Like

Rahul Verma (Accountant) (98 Points)
Replied 11 July 2013

Originally posted by : CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA


If stipend is fixed for Rs.5000/- per month; the following situation may arise :

1. Those just passing CPT and IPCC at margin may not find training with a CA Firm.

2. Quality work will be allocated to the articled clerks.

3. If the work is not performed according to the standards set by the employer; he will be interested to  allow transfer.

4. Until an employer is not having sufficient work; he will not engage more articled clerks.

5. THREAT : A CA who is not having any work in reality; will employ such articled clerks who are not finding any firm for the training due to the increased stipend.

.

Now asking the students : are you really interested (please keep into your mind -you have to work according to the instructions of your employer strictly....no coaching during the office hours which are generally ranging from 10 am to 8 pm.

.

This way if the students gets the training; at least it is assured that he will not remain unemployed even if he is unable to qualify CA Final.

 

This is actually the point to be debated upon, that many CAs employ articles just because they need to pay only Rs.1000/- a month. Even if they dont have any work to offer they employ many articles (5-10) just to show off. This is hampering the quality of Future CAs. Whats the benefit of joining a firm which has nothing to offer, articles of these small firms are almost alike dummy articles, what is the fault of SO CALLED REGULAR ARTICLES, and how will you distinguish between a dummy article and the one working in a firm where they are learning nothing (why should these guys suffer when atleast they are doing their bit, if firm is not good atleast they are not at fault).

 

1 Like

Saibal-B.com LLB CA FINAL (Indirect Taxation) (145 Points)
Replied 11 July 2013

Sir Ji

 

Only making policies in papers and asking others to follow such is very easy but the artcles who are facing the artificial pressure by the so called article rules are already frustrated , in my entire carreer i have seen many articles who are employed for less stipends , but when they ask for leave or time for coaching classes CA used to tell to work as per clients schedule .SIDDHA SIDHI BAAT A CA IS BASICALLY A BUSINESSMAN MUCH RATHER THAN A PROFESSIONAL , WE SHOULD NOT ALWAYS  LOUD ABOUT THE PROFESSION WHEN WE ARE ACTUALLY NOT PRACTISING IT as per rules.

 

 

MAYUR


Deepak (Assistant Manager) (110 Points)
Replied 11 July 2013

A CA during articlship is like a bonded labourerer. Instead of focusing on punishment side you guy should do introspection why this is happening! 

Mr Surendra, do you think it is easy to investigate & punish a CA in practice. See the history, PWC scandal & many more.... What happened to those culprit? or visible as culprit.  It is so much hard to punish single CA & how you are going to punish nth number of qualified CA. 

It is easy said than done to xyz.

I strongly believe that self control is the best way.  We have ethics in place. We have rule of professional conduct! Lets  be practical rather than giving knee jerk reaction like dictator. You cant have saddam/ Gaddafi/ hitlerism here. It is democratic place.

Just cool & enjoy the rain outside

Focus on business rather than politicscheeky




Deepak (Assistant Manager) (110 Points)
Replied 11 July 2013

1) Which noble prize winner scientist have proved that 3 yrs training is required to b a CA? Can you prove? Why not just 6 month? or why not just 1 years? ........? 

 

Gentleman, can you respond to my query?

I am saying training should be reduce to 1 years only. If you are not agree with me then prove me wrong.

 

2) Why the hell CA institute fixing the labour rate 1000 Rs. Lets market decide. No logic can justify to fix slavery rate. A Slave to CA in practice! I am sure you will not agree because you are in practice. and if rate is revise you have to pay extra to trainee.

 

3) Why training under CA in practice only? Lets open whole corporate world. A CA student can take training any where in finance world. Lets not make bonded laboure to a student. Just learn from USA, UK & else where rather than becoming "Kuwe ka medhak"


Ganeshbabu K (Audit and Tax Advisory) (48559 Points)
Replied 11 July 2013

Originally posted by : Deepak

1) Which noble prize winner scientist have proved that 3 yrs training is required to b a CA? Can you prove? Why not just 6 month? or why not just 1 years? ........? 

 

Gentleman, can you respond to my query?

I am saying training should be reduce to 1 years only. If you are not agree with me then prove me wrong.

2) Why the hell CA institute fixing the labour rate 1000 Rs. Lets market decide. No logic can justify to fix slavery rate. A Slave to CA in practice! I am sure you will not agree because you are in practice. and if rate is revise you have to pay extra to trainee.

3) Why training under CA in practice only? Lets open whole corporate world. A CA student can take training any where in finance world. Lets not make bonded laboure to a student. Just learn from USA, UK & else where rather than becoming "Kuwe ka medhak"

Very nice...Wow I shocked,amazed,after seeing your beatiful analysis..

I want to know your qualification and designation enjoyed by you now...Becasue You have provided somany funny suggestion...Sorry i mean which makes me laugh loud.

In 19 July 2011 you have just qualified CPT

/experts/ipcc-changing-exam-zone-722380.asp

See i have lot to argue with you i fee no use to say some thing to you or argue with you.

You are not in a position to understand or learn..

You might have been in articleship...still you cant able to understand the value of articleship means you dont know that Value of CA profession.

1)Responding to your comments is speaking Convincing  is useless.You neither in a position to learn nor in a position to understand any thing..It is no use to respond your queries because except you every one in CA profession knows the value of articleship or people who have neglected articleship was regreting abouttheir  mistake done in past 

2)How can you love our profession if you have so much anger on articleship.

Where somany students fails in Exam after a hardwork of 6 months or 1 year at a one level of course..Do you think 6 months articleship will give success in profession as a CA...

Can you say a list of career oppurtunities for CA...and please guide me what is the system in UK and US..

And say how to succeed in a CA profession with   year or  months articleship..

 


Ganeshbabu K (Audit and Tax Advisory) (48559 Points)
Replied 11 July 2013

My 2 years articleship will be completed by this August 10th..

I just want to tell you this..because i feel it is a situation to convey importance of articleship,

My expected earnings in July,August,September will be not less than Rs.40,000-Rs.45,000(except articleship stipend)... definetely i will get more than this amount only...surely not less than this..

 

From July 1st to 10th July...i already earned Rs.12,000

 

(1)16 salary ITR filings = 14*500=7000(time spent was 10min*14=140MIN)

 

(2)4 house propertyITR filings=4*500=2000

 

(3)TDS reconciliation,  and Payment of TDS and some guidence on reversecharge service tax  in a 2 companies =2000/-

Ofcourse amount may not be a big amount..But it ws additional earnings for me.

 

If you have done articleship in 3 years, there it self we learn alot and we can get more professional contacts it will help us alot in future...we can get help,guidence,support from these people at free of cost.

For example CAclubindia... it was great plat form where you can interact with many learned persons.Yes..Because i have improved my self and learning a lot at free of cost...And i always thankful to Caclubindia and especially to CA SURENDRAKUMAR RAKECHA, and ANKUR GARG.Because in simple words it was a great turning point for me to Join CCI and after learning from CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKECHA sir, Articles,forums, and his contribution in CCI.

This articleship is made me to earn money for my Coaching and CA final books..

Love the profession.....we will be happy

Other wise every day is a bad day for us

Thanks & regards

Ganesh babu k


CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26258 Points)
Replied 14 July 2013

A live example of QUALIFIED PROFESSIONAL PASSED WITH DUMMY  ARTICLESHIP:

.

/experts/estimated-audit-1365949.asp


Hanumantha Reddy.C (B.Com, CA in Practice) (179 Points)
Replied 17 August 2013

1)As per ca articleship rules CA student is required to submit work dairy after completing every 12 months of articleship (i)neither student sends to icai voluntarily nor icai will send any notices to students 2)if icai want to catch dummies just go to coaching centres who conduct classes like regular coaching (i)in vijayawada city in andhrapradesh there are some institutes who is runnning with a timings from 9.30 AM TO 2.PM AND THEY WILL MAKE THIS TIMING TO 9.30 AM TO 8.00 AM ALSO SOME TIMES AT THE END OF TRAINING DURATION THEY TAKE TO COMPLETE CA FINAL COACHING IS 8 MONTHS COMPLETE REGULAR COACHING My question is i want to know which CA can give leave for 8 months to go for ca final coaching...and there after again leave for exam prepartion..who can give leave like that except dummies.... 1)if icai is able to collect those students registration numbers we can say all these students are dummies and an appropriate action can be taken against CA 2)but icai will not do such investigations...and still it says steps was taken to control dummies..i dont know what steps they are taking 3)dummies percentage was reduced when ipcc was there and the same was increased now after direct entry scheme If icai really want to trace dummies it can ask to produce 1)bank pass book--proof that student received stipend as per ca rules 2)work diary of work done till today From all students who are in articleship Can icai do that..now..if it is ready to do so many will come out Read more at: /forum/details.asp?mod_id=255818&offset=2#.Ug9UkuRkPDo

I fully Agree Ganesh bro, Our ICAI has to take some action...

1 Like



Vikram Bhatia (CA Final) (122 Points)
Replied 17 August 2013

Completely agreed with you sir, 

Thanks to ICAI who has given us wonderful opportunity to learn or  gain practical experience which also helps us in our studies.... people who are taking dummy articleship are just wasting their precious 3 Years by sitting at home..

I am in last 6 months of my articleship & i can actually feel the difference what I was 2 years before & what I am today.....

On behalf of all the students (not the dummy ones cheeky) , A BIG THANKSSSSS TO ALL THE MEMBERS OF ICAI........!!! yes

1 Like

CA Uday bhan (.) (84 Points)
Replied 26 January 2014

sir i want to tell u one more truth that some student do their articalship genuinally but they did not know the work that is neccessery to do the work after becoming CA ,the reason is that they are not get selected in big 4's and got articalship in other firms ,at that time they did not know works that the joined firm have .After some time they coming to know in that firm in which he is doing articalship not have VAT,SERVICE TAX ,EXCISE ,CUSTOM, etc works . and all the three years of articalship is passed only in mainting accounts books and some income tax return. I am also like student that completed articalship but i dont know how to get a new company registered, i dont know excise work , i dont know full VAT work ,i dont know service tax work ,but what i know is filling of tds returns and income tax return and maintaining book in small firms. sir i want to know what is my mistake ? what is got after 3 year? I think ICAI  should not allow that CA fims to give training to articals they dont have some initial work that a fresher CA must have.

1 Like

Sneha sharma (Student CA Final ) (21 Points)
Replied 12 September 2015

same case with me...i agree

 


Deepali (CA Final Student) (105 Points)
Replied 03 October 2015

Dear Sir,

I agree with your view. Articleship is an important part of CA profession. There is a huge difference between studying TDS in Books and actually applying it a client place (for example)

Infact it helps to gain a lot of clarity on various concepts as well and is beneficial.

However, it is important that Articles be treated as students and not employees and they should be allowed to give priority to their studies. I feel that the reason why many students want to do dummy is because they want time to study. With articleship it gets difficult to study on daily basis as hardly any time or energy is left at the end of the day. A thought should be given to this aspect as well...

Thankyou





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