CA vs Other Professions

Pranav (Doing something or the other) (92 Points)
Replied 26 October 2009

To be pretty concise, Chartered Accountant are definately the best of the breed with extensive knowledge of various fields including costing, company laws and financial management (Which is why only they have the power to sign a BalanceSheet) whereas the MBAs are good at communication skills and managing various day-to-day business activities with a view of achieving optimum utilisation. Frankly, both of them are excellent on their own stages but comparatively, CAs have a wider knowledge which is why many say it is a true professional career as compared to MBAs. Plus, the passing percentages play an important factor in giving CAs bragging rights.

Krunal Raichura (Financial Advisory) (2134 Points)
Replied 27 October 2009

Everything agreed. But the fact remains that those who generate revenue would earn more than those who keep accounts of that revenue and expenditure and pay tax theron.

Therefore, in the text above I am highlighting the point that in auto, telecom, IT, Entertainment, Media, Hospitality, Pharma etc, the revenue generating roles are not with CAs, its not our domain area. CAs do jobs in these sectors, but they are non revenue generating i.e. CAs work in these type of companies as Accountants, Tax and Legal Compliance Managers etc. The role of CAs is to keep accounts of Incomes and expenses of the company and complete the tax formalities theron. Whereas, the revenue generating roles are those which are responsible for generating revenue for the company. And such roles are there with CAs only in audit firms and banks mainly. CAs cannot generate any revenue for the firms in auto, telecom, IT, Entertainment, Media, Hospitality, Pharma etc and in the cos of these sectors, the top paid executives would therefore not include many people from finance background. By saying all this, I am just highlighting the other career options like Auto Designing, Fashion Desgning, Hotel Managemet, Pilots, Telecom/E&TC/IT engineers, Marketing, HR etc and I am saying that they are as good as finance as a career and they are as good as CA as a degree because of reasons mentioned above.

CAs have good knowledge in the areas you mentioned. You are right, but is that the end of world? Is it that only those who have knowledge of accounting, auditing, taxation are the only great people? Is it that only those who appear and pass an exam are knowledgable? Certainly not right?

Even if you as a CA start a business of say Pharma, in your company you would ideally pay the best salaries to those who generate revenue for you and not to those who just keep track of your income and expenses right? This applies to all Industries.

jose.p (CA in service) (1676 Points)
Replied 27 October 2009

Well said krunal. i agree with you in this topic. And mr pranav; CAs got power to sign balance sheet only not that CA were existent first; and then due to their mahanataa they were bestowed this power. But the truth is other way around.Refer history of audit of pcc. There was a need for an independent person to verify and give his opinion on the ......that's why auditors came and they got the power.

Krunal Raichura (Financial Advisory) (2134 Points)
Replied 27 October 2009

Originally posted by :Aldrine
"	I am poining out another thing.....at the entry level it may be correct, whenever the CA acquire the experiance, there is a great value addition,then opportunities become wider.In marketing field only few are selecting to the top after 45 or 50 or 55. In an average level the scope of marketing people decreases after 40 or 45.Risk of job is also comparatively higher (yes risk is every where, but...), if the market is dull or if his contibution (can be measured by figures) is lesser to the organization, then he will be in trouble. But for a CA, it is very diffcult to assess his performance by figures. Even if the oranization in trouble, CA may have a role to play.	"

You may kindly see the age of the top paid exeuctives of the top paid executives from finance background and I am sure you will see that they are also above 45.

The opportunities for other professions also become wider over a period. Thats because they can also learn all the things which we do to the extent it is applicable to them for their promotions. I have met quite a lot of CEOs, VPs who are from non-finance background but know far more than any CA ranker about accounting, auditing.

The risk of job is a topic which industry specific, sometimes IT guys are in trouble, sometimes Investment Banks, sometimes specific companies not doing well etc, I dont think its degree specific.

One thing is there, that CA and audits would be required in all times. So it is evergreen profession. Thats why I never said CA is a bad profession or it is not as good as other professions are. But I just made the point, the people from other professions get a chance to be in a revenue generating role (except for audit firms) and thats why you will find that most of the top paid executives dont come from finance background. Only in investment companies, banks and audit firms you will find that top paid executives maybe from finance background (not necessarily CA). And finance is just 1 sector like any other, so the bias towards finance as a profession and CA as a degree does not hold true. And it is a myth that the finance jobs are best jobs compared to other jobs because in all other sectors revenue generating roles are with non finance people.

So to say that CA is the greatest and engineers, marketing, hr, strategy and operatiosn etc people are nothing in front of us is quite wrong. The right way to put it is that CA is a good career option for those who want to make a career in accounting, auditing and taxation. I dont think anyone needs to compare CA with other professions. I have done that just to show all of you that it is not comparable!!!

To Mr. Pranav -

Power to sign a balance sheet is nothing in front of the entreprenuers and the people who are behind it. Without businesses, without revenue there will be no balance sheet and no power to CAs. So be very clear that the people who generate revenue would always be more powerful, wealthy than those who just keep account of it and do the tax related work therin.

ANANDA VAIDYANATHAN (ACA) (216 Points)
Replied 27 October 2009

hi krunal, I think you have made a very good interpretation. I totally agree with you that ca as a profession cannot and should not be compared with any other job as each of them has its own unique features. But according to me the role of a chartered accountant is not confined only to compliance department as you mentioned above. it is more a versatile one. Of course a chartered accountant who is an auditor of a company is concerned only with that. A company has to file its returns even though it has no revenue or it has incurred loss. There are many number of chartered accountants who do many other works other than book keeping and taxation in the industries mentioned by you. Cost cutting measures , expenditure planning, financial budgeting, Financial erp orientations, induction and training are some of the departments were chartered accountants expertise is sought often. for example cost cutting measures do not generate revenue but it will reduce the expenditures which in turn increase the profit. In recent times there is a great number of demand in BPO's, IT, KPO's as most of the ca's are very good in analytical skills. These skills are very useful in designing the flow of a process in a computerized environment especially in a/cs payable section. It is also a revenue generating job. Thus the kind of versatility a ca exhibits makes him unique compared to other persons. And also we cannot compare MBA with CA. MBA is a degree which any college or b-school can issue. CA is not like that. Also we cannot compare students of XLRI, IIM'S with ICAI students because those students have proved themselves before they start their education in those schools by clearing some toughest entrance examinations. They would have the ability to penetrate any kind of recession or job scarcity without the coaching. The coaching provided there will be only be a platform for their talents and knowledge. But in ca course our cpt cant be compared to those entrance examinations. a ca student gradually gains knowledge and experience in his article ship and develops himself as a versatile finance professional.

Siddharth Prasanna (Articled Assistant) (160 Points)
Replied 27 October 2009

I agree with your points to an extent. The main reason behind all these factors are that CAs lack the communication skills. Communication is an important aspect in the organisation. And many CAs have a very mild academic knowledge as all that they aim for is to clear up the exams. They just wanna touch 300s and 400s and prepare accordingly. A few even start studying from day one and by-heart the contents. We can partially blame the rules that prevent students from attending college. Articleship is supposedly a school for us where we are supposed to learn. On the contrary, we find it boring and take it for granted.

Whereas MBA is full of Case Studies in a classroom environment where students interact with like minded people and equip themselves more.

But I'd tell on any day a CA is more intelligent, perseverent, hard working than any MBA graduate. :)

Siddharth Prasanna (Articled Assistant) (160 Points)
Replied 27 October 2009

The need of the day for CAs is good communication skills. Or rather, we must be on par with the MBAs with regard to this. So some innovated subjects and a drastic change in the curriculum would do a lot good to the current scenario. :) MBAs graduated with specialisation in Finance from the top B schools are a great threat to us. To outwit them in the current corporate scenario, we need to equip ourselves more as mentioned above. And as far as other MBAs are concerned, we needn't worry as the fields they are in are just complimentary to ours and we are specialised professionals in what we are!

Krunal Raichura (Financial Advisory) (2134 Points)
Replied 27 October 2009

Ananda and others, i never said anything agaist any course. I am just saying that its not comparable and every course has its own opportunities and threats. I have only been against the bias in some forum posts where people have said that only CA is a good option or best option and only finance is a good field. None of you have said anything of that sort in this forum post, so its good.

Regarding cost cutting suggestions - organisations today have an open door policy and everyone right from a watchman to the CEO is given the freedom to give suggestions and some companies even reward and give incentives to winning ideas. This is not specific to CA. And trust me, its not that CAs are the only people who can give cost cutting ideas. I have some practical case studies in the clients I have handled where the lowest level hierarchy people have given million dollar worth suggestions.

To Ananda and others - All areas that you have mentioned like Budgeting, training and other areas are again not direct revenue generating roles. The topic of cost cutting and budgeting would come when there is a business i.e. a product/service (this would be again made by some special guys who have technical knowledge of making products say cars, commodities, toothpaste, computer etc) which has a market and acceptance (this is something which people from Sales, Marketing, HR, Product Development, R&D, Quality Assurance, Strategy & Operations, PR etc would do). You have to have a team of marketing, brand building, PR etc to sell your goods. Without that, there will be no cash flow, no business and nothing like cost cutting and budgeting. I dont think a CA or anyone from Finance background would be ideally involved in selling anything (as mentioned earlier banks and audit firms are doamin areas of finance people so they are exceptions to this statement). The question is not only about IIM and XLRI, even the tier 2 and tier 3 bschool people do well in terms of placements, packages and profiles. I have mentioned some of the names in my first post for your reference.

Mr. Aldrine, I agree everyone contributes to organisation, that was never the issue for debate. The point is how much, and in that sense, the people who are revenue generating have more contribution than CAs or MBA finance in finance department looking after finalisation of company's accounts and its taxation matters. I am happy to see the descripttion of role of CA which you have given and I am talking exactly on those lines in all my posts. The role of CA would be to look after accounting all incomes, expenses etc in the most clean way and looking after tax matters. Its like a security guard of money. And thats why, the guys who would earn money would reward its security guards, the reward would be just a fraction of what is earned. Just like CAs who come to top acquire knowledge of other area, people from other area also acquire knowledge of accounting, auditing, taxation, company law etc. Knowledge doesn't remain locked in a closed room of a CA or anybody. It goes to every person who aspires for it.

To Siddhartha - Agreed. By having good communication skills we maybe able to do better than MBA finance, fair enough. Thats not the the point. Even after good communication skills, except for baks and audit firms, CAs wouldn't be in revenue generating roles, and in all those sectors, the people who are in such roles would do better than finance professionals (includes CA and MBA and others as well). Thats because in those sectors, role of finance people would be confined to safe guarding of money earned by people from other backgrounds. For this safeguarding we would be rewarded surely, but it would be a fraction of what they earn.As mentioned earlier, all of you can see the annual reports of the top companies. See how much are auditors paid, it would not even be 1% of net profits. And in all companies outside finance sector, the salaries of finance departments would be comparatively less than others and thats because other departments are responsible for earning money whereas finance department would be in capacity of safegaurding it.

Siddharth Prasanna (Articled Assistant) (160 Points)
Replied 27 October 2009

Krunal... What is your take on CAs being CFOs? Aren't they revenue generating posts for a company? Even a pharmaceutical company would require a CFO to maximise their revenues. I agree that Compliance Careers take a backseat when compared to that of revenue generating careers with regard to the prospects and the liveliness in the career. But CAs are not totally for compliance. They play an important role in revenue generation as well is my opinion. And I have strengthened the merit of my opinion by quoting the roles of CFOs. :) And as far as the people here who feel CA is better than other professions, they are right from their purview too. Not all CAs can type out so many lines in English like you and me or even speak so many lines like us. But am sure such CAs carry a better aptitude than the attitude needed. So you and me in the near future or somewhere down the lane of life, would opt for a MBA in a good B-School. But the chances for those CAs are remote and to make good use of their talents, they choose CA which is the best for them. To satisfy themselves, they pose a face as though they are in the best profession. But at the end of the day, any CA would wanna do a MBA and any MBA would wanna do a CA or atleast feel that he could have done a CA in his life. So I'd say that just like how the views of others (biasness towards CA) are subjective here , our impression that MBA is better, is a subjective one as well. :)

Krunal Raichura (Financial Advisory) (2134 Points)
Replied 28 October 2009

Mr. Siddharth,

You have repeated what I have said in my earlier posts. I have mentioned the same thing. I said that in all other sectors other than finance, most of the top paid people would be non finance. I did not used the word "ALL". So it implies that we do have some people from finance background as top paid executives outside finance sector as well.

I have mentioned the same sentence in earlier post, that we may have one CFO/Finance director as a top paid executive in every company.

For all these reasons only I am saying that CA is a good course. Till here the story is fine. But if I continue with this sentence and say that Only CA is a good course, rest of them are stupid and nuits, they dont know anything that woud be wrong and a biased view. If I continue this sentence by saying that only CAs make money and rest are poor that would be even more stupid because as we have seen in rest of the sectors, most (not all) of the top paid executives are not from finance background at the first place, so the question of CA and MBA doesnt arise in those sectors as far as top paid executives are concerned.

You have mentioned about aptitude and attitude, thats something very specific to an individual and has nothing to do with any courses as such.

Let me clarify that I am not saying MBAs are better or CAs are better, I have mentioned my stand that none of these courses are comparable. Each course has its own different market of opportunities. MBAs ideally have the reponsibility of getting the work done and are different in that sense from CAs who have to do the work. Likewise, enginners, doctors, pilots etc have opportunities in their resepctive sectors. None of these are comparable. I dont have any bias for any course.

Siddharth Prasanna (Articled Assistant) (160 Points)
Replied 28 October 2009

Aldrine.... Hope you have heard about Mr. Sarath Babu... CEO of Food Kings... His mother was selling idlis at Chennai. He is an alumni of BITS , PIlani and IIM (Ahmedabad I guess). And I am a passout from Loyola College, Chennai. I know many poeple who hail from a middle class family in Chennai and have made it to to the B schools. It isn't that CA is a good course for middle class people.

And developing communication skills depends a lot on your interests than your status, is what I feel.

At Krunal... You are much clearer now. I agree with you. And by generalising, I should say that by attitude, MBAs are greater and by aptitude CAs are greater.

Krunal Raichura (Financial Advisory) (2134 Points)
Replied 28 October 2009

As far as I know there is nothing to suggest that CA course is dominated by any particular class of students. Further there is nothing to suggest that middle class people are not good at communication skills. This topic is again based on individual capability and experience.

To Sidhartha, my pleasure to know you are very clear about the discussion now.

I would also like to add that many feel CA course and CAs are superior to all because of knowledge. This is again wrong ideology. The reason being that the job and responsibilites of a CA require the candidate to be very knowledgable. However, there are many jobs/professions/businesses that do not require a person to be knowledgable. Some jobs/professions require a person to have skills. These skills can be developed by anybody over a period of time without spending much money. Examples being acting, singing, dancing, designing, handicrafts, jobs in textiles, media, advertising etc. These jobs are again far more remunerative than what jobs in finance are or the professions/jobs which CAs are involved in. Then there are other jobs which require a person to be a good speaker, a patient listener and a they require you to understand your customer. These jobs are in sales, marketing, public relations, corporate communications etc. These jobs again are very attractive, creative, challenging and exciting as well. So, knowledge does not make a course superior. CAs are knowledgable because their role in society and industry require them to be knowledgable. Comparatively, as many of you have pointed out, people from other courses may not be knowledgable. Which is correct, but we also need to keep in mind that those people dont require to be knowledgable. Their role and responsibility does not demand knowledge but it demands skills, attitude etc.

Just because of knowledge nothing can be called superior or inferior. The broad picture needs to be kept in mind.

I thank everybody for taking the time to read and reply to this forum.

Siddharth Prasanna (Articled Assistant) (160 Points)
Replied 28 October 2009

Aldrine... There are a lots of medical srudents from rural areas as well. In fact, 50% of them are from rural areas. And due to reservations, there are enough seats in IITs and IIMs as well. No course is a poor man's tea these days. Even CA costs you mimimum 50000-60000 considering tuition fees as well :)