A driver vs. fresh ca

Satvir Singh (Newly minted CA) (1733 Points)
Replied 11 November 2012

very much true........the goal for most, understandably, is to pass the exams..........

even those who r not taking dummy articleship, most of them r focused on coaching classes, rather than trying to learn something practically.

2 Like

SIVASIVA (FCA, Future CA) (4935 Points)
Replied 11 November 2012

compulsion, disinterest, all are agreed.

Urvashi Saini (Difference between Peak Performers & eve) (1494 Points)
Replied 11 November 2012

Originally posted by : CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA
	. . THIS IS THE "REAL CONTRIBUTION" OF COACHING CLASSES BECAUSE STUDENTS "OUTSOURCED" THEIR "LABOUR" TO THEM AND IGNORED "PRACTICAL ARTICLESHIP TRAINING." . NOW FOR REST OF THE LIFE; THEY WOULD BE UNABLE TO FIND SUCH COACHING CLASSES WHICH WILL HELP THEM TO UNDERSTAND FREQUENT AMENDMENTS IN VARIOUS TAX LAWS, ACCOUNTING/AUDITING STANDARDS AND EMERGING AREAS IN CA PROFESSION BECAUSE THEY JOINED CA COURSE TO MAKE A GOOD CAREER . . ACTUALLY THEY NEVER HAD "INTEREST IN STUDIES." . THEY STUDIED BECAUSE THERE WAS A COMPULSION TO STUDY.

Agreed sir, this is actually the truth!

Back in the Game (a) (1273 Points)
Replied 11 November 2012

I agree to this to an Extent....i met a CA ,other day from my city ...he passed his CA back in 1984... there was no point of coaching back in 1984....he scored 83 in accounts then cracked CA in final first attempt..he s a resource person of our branch of institute...

he told then at Finals they had option to select subjects at final level -he quotes "Don ask me anything in costing,because i ve not taken that subject at finals"

Now coming to the point of coaching classes ,yes to an extent there are coaching Classes which adopt exmination approach but that depends on Faculty teaching...

if the teacher is an industry practioner,we will certainly get an oppurtunity to learn something from industry insights,which would instead take years to learn.........but if the teacher isnt one,then CA for concerned subject becomes passing mechanism rather than knowledge..

The Great APJ abdul kalam

says

u should ve a great aim

knowledge from great people

knowledge from great books.....

The second criteria makes it clear that it isnt really wrong to get knowledge /get educated from get great people who ve knowledge but at the same time it should be coupled with good books...

I really respect Mr Rakecha a lot(just read his articles at this website)-he s an eye opener...he will show u a vision...

but i ve certain critical question to ask Mr Rakecha...

CA Final demands specialized knowledge of almost all papers...The ICAI should realize a person cannot be an expert in every Damn Area...

the ICAI should give specialization options at Finals,atleast 6 out of 8 papers should be given an option to select....

"Forget abt exams, Why should i waste my time studying something in my life ,which am damn sure not to do anything of it in Future"-Bill gates was an answer to this question ,so he was a drop out and an expert in his Field.

i ve a simple question to Ask icai,how often u Find members from ur fraternity who practice in all these 8 subjects simultaneously and are succesful......

not many ,pls-"Exceptions are not examples".

By Adding a subject(than wat u want him to specialize in) u r simply creating a burden on a student to score a additional 40 marks,& also fight for 10 marks of average to make it 50......

Further at the same ,u r creating stumbling block from investing his productive time in the subject which he s intersted in....

With this how do u expect to bring out quality CA's....

i really beg to differ ,unless a revamp in the system is made.....

Primarily its Fault in the system.....

As far as articleship is concerned let an year and half of training be made mandatory for a student in the domain where the students wants to speciliazi in...

No icai will never do it...if they , most of the students are gonna get trained in industries...and practicing members will not ve Cheap and quality clerks to work for....

pls don blame the students only ,the system is also at fault....

8 Like

goluji (CA FINAL CS FINAL LLB student) (79 Points)
Replied 11 November 2012

CA Surendra Sir, I feel regret to notice that u focus very badly on the Private coaching classes...in your previous posts also I noticed that u posted an example concluding finally crtisicing the tution classes...I dont understand that y u focusing everytime your personal ill experiences of articles in this platform, instead this pious platform should get benefit of your excellent and expert knowledge...

Humble request to u sir that every student has its decision to take based on circumstances prevailing, u cannot blame coaching classes as each and every GURU of coaching classes are not teaching to clear exam oriented, its an insult to teaching fraternity.

5 Like

pvpprabhu (CA,CS) (109 Points)
Replied 11 November 2012

dear surendra sir.

i respectfully disagree with your views on the above topic and ca in general,the way you are ridiculing the coaching institutes is in bad taste,its your views and i respect it,but sir ji there is always two sides of a coin,good aspect and bad aspect,those few good gentlemen who teach students are infact very nice and it would be great if more such experienced people like them start teaching including you instead of ridiculing all as such and any job including that of a driver is not bad and mentality of the people how they see it should change,a pilot is also a driver and he earns more than many practicing ca's also,money is not the criteria to judge how succesfull a profession is or the people are,now the competition is tough for this generation than in 80's when awareness for the course was not there and only few people used to crack the course in trial and error method,i don't know how many good principal are there of that genaration who treat their article well and encourage them,so the fault lies in them and not this generation students,hope you do not view my comments negatively and to your heart.

happy diwali to all.

hariharan

M.com,ca,cs

5 Like

YASH JAIN (ARTICLE) (554 Points)
Replied 11 November 2012

Very Unfortunate comment and post by you sir. Please sir dont go the Digvijay Singh way. Mr Digvijay being a senior politician has lost his image due to unwarranted comments, please switch on the ABP News and u will know it all. Similarly you comparing CA with Driver just to target coaching class is an unfortunate and illogical statement. Sir I do agree that coaching class to some extent has disadvantages but you must also appreciate that all the students are not born brilliant like yourself and they do need some support for studies, so coaching class is boon for them. Respect ICAI and instead of giving some critical statement please do come out with constructive solution which will be appreciative.

5 Like

Ankit Agarwal (Article) (204 Points)
Replied 12 November 2012

Comaprison given by Rakhecha sir is highly illogical. He is blaming coaching classes for this condition,this is not at all true..students attend classes during morning time and evening time and spend rest of their day in office..no matter how bad is the firm..no matter how good/bad or knowledgeable the CA is..the students have to waste thier time in office because they can't take transfers due to institute's so many restrictions..

many students opt for tutions beause a professional can make them understand in a better way...given the time constraint studymat of icai requires a lot of time to study...

if coaching classes would have existed during your times..u would have also joined.

Atlast if practical training will serve everything then students doing articleship must pass in first attempt...but this is not the case because for giving exams one has to read books & prepare....ye nai ki exam k ek din pehle tak office jaake jhanda gaad raha hain

5 Like

CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 12 November 2012

I am happy to note that some of the students have their own insight about the matter.

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First of all; I wish to make it very clear that I had never attended any coaching since my school life till CA Finals. Yes, it is true that we had our team of 6 students who used to compete with each other and raised "unique" questions to the teachers in Standard X, XI and to lecturers while we were in graduation.

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My weight was only 28kg. when I got I Rank in Secondary Education ( everyone of our team got a Rank ).

I could write 36 words per minute. In the age of 16, till today I am the youngest person in India who had highest speed in Hindi typewriting.

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The above post I have written on my own experience.

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I was also engaged in coaching classes till 2007-2010.

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I always focused more on learning and giving insight about the subjects how these are career oriented. I used to take test on the same day which students disliked.

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Since students were more interested in passing only as was the scenario; hence I left that coaching knowing soon students will realize what would happen to them in near future.

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Surat is known as CA HUB OF PASSING. And if anybody is interested to hire the services of such qualified CAs; more than 200 CAs are in queue.

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Regarding coaching; even one of the India Rankholder in IPCC; Sneha Bagla (Sunshine-member of caclubindia) has expressed her sorrows about the faculties of coaching classes in Delhi.

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CA Curruculum is wonderful; no doubt about it.

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I am of strong opinion that maximum 12 lectures are required for most of the subjects. This would be sufficient to give insight about the subjects.

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( I "honestly" feel that students will disagree with this point ).

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Although I don't wish to go into details but I simply want to draw the attention of all :

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Many times some subjects were never completed in schools and if completed; almost at the time when schools were likely to declare exam holidays and extra classes were taken if not completed even after declaration of exam holidays.

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Tell me for how many days a school is run in a year and how many classes are taken every day?

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The answer is not less than 240 days a year.

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Can't the teachers complete simple subjects say English, Hindi, History, etc. within 3-4 months and that also very easily ? If they can't do it; it means they are not expert in the subjects (although teaching the same subjects for number of years) and they could not create interest in the subjects. In most of the cases; they thought they have to read word to word of every chapter because students were UNABLE to UNDERSTAND at their own. This MISCONCEPTION continues till Standard XII and then becomes the HABIT OF STUDENTS to study WITH THE HELP OF A TEACHER/FACULTY.

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This is the reason that most of the students join tuition classes. Hardly anyone is there who is not attending tution classes.

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There is a difference between Coaching and Tuition. Present Coaching classes are actually Tution Classes. Surely there would be difference if the faculties are either in Practice or in Industry. Those who are engaged in only teaching. are actually TEACHERS ! They know better about exam patterns than the actual usefulness of the subjects in the career.

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Coaching is personalized whereas Tutions are generalized.

We know well that even Sachin Tendular has his own Coach ! What more to say !

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A particular student may feel more troubles in Costing than Accountancy. So he requires coaching for that subject only. But he has to go for Accountancy as well and he has to wait for the turn of Costing !

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The percentage results of coaching classes is almost same all over India even if you compare with the cities where coaching facilities are not present. Since in some cities number of students are too much; hence qualified number of students will also likely to be too much.

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They claim good results say 30% of their classes; then what about rest of 70% who failed despite joining the same coaching classes?

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I wish to narrate one example of Kolkata of 1985 (not sure about the year).

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In Lodha & Company, 47 out of 50 passed in CA Final Exams and they didn't enjoy coaching ! One got 6th Rank : CA Lalit Choudhary. And this happened when the results were use to have 4-5.%

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CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA (Practising CA at Surat) (26263 Points)
Replied 12 November 2012

ONE IMPORTANT POINT :

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Of course; A COACHING CLASS is a good platform for STUDENTS

to make groups and to take benefits of REGULAR DISCUSSION.

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pvpprabhu (CA,CS) (109 Points)
Replied 12 November 2012

dear surendra ji

you may be exceptionally talented and great may have great hindi typing speed,but teaching is an art,not even expert like you may get it,taking tests on sunday and student disliking it etc are lame reasons you are giving for quitting coaching,just see how M.P.Vijayakumar sir,praveensharma sir,vinodgupta sir,ss rajagopal sir etc teach students or coach students,how deep they go into the subject.

even after such coaching also many student fail,not because teacher was bad,but they did not apply themselve on the d day ie for 3 hours during the exam.

there is always a generation gap between today's students and generation of your's,it is human phsycology.

for every student his/her attempt is the toughest one and others attempt is easier one,this fight will go on for ever,its perception only,not all people have same IQ,but that does not mean that today's generation is way behind your's....i can proudly say that many old ca's do not know how to operate computers also,but are successfull because their article students bail them out,there is fault in everybody including you me and other's,instead of finding fault in others we must help each other.

when you have all the intelligence and experience,why don't you contribute for our success by contributing your experiences instead of targetting the students pass percentage etc etc.....they all are myth only,i could also argue that when you all passed there were no competition and who ever wrote ca were awarded degree because supply was less and demand more,but it does not work out like that now also there is demand for ca as daily many new companies are coming up,if you surrender your ca and appear once again to prove to the world that i can complete ca even now and make comments against coaching centre and others is appreciatable,but just for the sake of blaming some one is unacceptable,you did not spare even school teachers.

please sir give constructive criticism not generalised one.

sorry if i had hurt you as you are a senior professional and my culture does not allow me to speak harsh on my elder's but iam just putting my views politely.

regards

pvpprabhu (CA,CS) (109 Points)
Replied 12 November 2012

dear sir

when we are small it takes time to understand even ABC,hence in school time is taken to complete the syllabus.

HARI KRISHNA (B.COM ACA CMA) (412 Points)
Replied 12 November 2012

Sir what u have shared is absolutely correct

Nikhil Saraf (Chartered Accountant) (50 Points)
Replied 12 November 2012

We have got great visionaries here. CA and a Driver... As if Sir Kejriwal-Rakhi and Swami Vivekananda-Dawood Ibrahim comparisons were not enough.

Why compare Chartered Accountants to anyone? That too with regard to compensation?

Pay is just a matter of time.

One more point, Dear Sir, I too am from Surat, did my complete articleship here with utmost dedication. What if I wanted to learn Mergers & Acqusitions? Or Business Valuation? Or Treasury Operations of a Bank? Is articleship just enough? Does it teach us what we want to learn?

Being an eye opener is good. Being a mind opener, better.

3 Like