Some points on chartered word in ICAI

There are thousands of colonial things in this Country , why ICWAI is not asking govt to dismantl all. Example Indian railways , Whole CP , KOlkata City itself , and much more.  They gave a lot of things.

Why ICWAI is using English as medium its coures e, which is very much colonial language.

IF ICWAI is very patrotic ,then The name strictly , Lagal aum Prabandhan Lekhakar.

Why ICWAI is following doube Standard. The managment  does not belong to ICWAI , There are IIM as well take over IIM.

ICWAI is asking to be name on the its origin CIMA UK.

Which is also colonial body , Why double standard. CA is glorious profesion. IT has earned the same muc h before ICWAI) sinc 1949 by constution Aassembly

Can I (CIMA UK)  a management Account become a registered auditor and regulated by another body without joining it?

https://www.cimaglobal.com/Members/Members-handbook/FAQs/Can-I-become-a-registered-auditor

ICWAI trying to encroach area and scope of CA rather than developing it sown specialisaion. All the CA students working hard and paining their life to be a CA.

ICWAI wants to enjoy the fruits without taking risk.

Please Do not follow double standard. ICAI never ask govt to change its name. Our Constutional assembly passed the CA act 1949. It is not our CA and CA students ,who passed the Acts.

Dear Friends,

Let us not forget certain basic facts and argue like politicians. Intellectual approach is the hall mark of professionalism and we have done enough damage by embedding politics into every sacred institution of this country.

I am an ACA (rankholder in inter and final), FICWA, also granted membership by ICMA of Srilanka (formed by an Act of parliament), and also granted CPA Australia recently based on contribution to the accountancy profession. Certainly I hold holistic views for the accountancy profession.

The global evolution of management accounting institutes had always happened from a background of costing institutes. CIMA has been granted a Royal charter though it started as a non statutory body. Only CMA Canada and IMA America are bodies not formed by Act of Parliament. Bodies like ICMA of Nigeria, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Srilanka were all formed by an Act of Parliament. They were all in the earlier stages called as Cost Accounting institutes. With the advancement of cost accounting into management accounting these bodies have evolved into management accounting institutes.

If you consider the debates of the Parliamentarians of Nigeria and Srilanka which happened in the last two years , they have clearly recognised the emergence of Management Accounting as a specialised subject and not a generalist one like the Indian MPs argued . But the Indian MPs have been made to speak as if ICWAI demands reservation of practice area of management accounting. This is ridiculous. Even globally , the title of the accounting qualification does not refer to the jobs they do but the academic qualification they acquire based on the emphasis of the course curriculum. As a member of IFAC PAIB I can state this with certain authenticity.  CIMA does not oppose ICAEW members taking up consultancy jobs on management accounting and for that matter even by company secretaries. But the syllabus of CIMA emphasises management accounting. Look at the structuring of syllabus of CIMA, CMA Canada and ICWAI into various pillars linked with the professed competency framework. ICAI may have in its syllabus Costing and Management Accounting like ICAEW. But the emphasis as the whole world knows in syllabus and training is on compliance related fields such as financial auditing, taxation, accounting and company law.

The ICAI has cleverly twisted the whole scenario out of shape as if ICWAI is seeking reservation of practice area of management accounting and the political influence has made the MPs speak like that. This line of argument has deliberately ignored the IFAC view of allowing accountancy bobies to have thier own emphasis in syllabus and the descripttion and title after a student passes the exam. In the process , other management accounting bodies with similar syllabus can come into the country as Management accounting Institute  and pose a threat to ICWAI(reduced to cost accounting )  which has already happened.

ICAI has done this not only to ICWAI but is wary of any competition to its monopoly position and members like us do not realise this. After such a monopolistic behavious it concentrates only on compliance areas in its syllabus and training without driving performance management framework. If we are really serious about national competencies for the global role. We as asensible and intellectual accountants should  allow both bodies to build their strength in respective fields. But this requires intellectual maturity which is overwhelmed by polticial jingoism.

A.N.Raman

Mr. A.N, Raman,

First of  all , your being CA or ranker ,your authencity of your identity is not feasible to be checked  here on line forum like ours. That is not required as well. Personally ,it does not matter whether you cost or chartered acountant.

CIMA UK is not allowed to any attestation function  not even cost audit.  IN All the above countries , you have mentioned , CMA was taken from CIMA UK. Defination of Management accounting goes beyond boundary of accounting. IF you are not accountant , why you need to be regulated or why need attestation functions.

ICAI is apex regulatory body in the accounting like any country . We like Indian CWA goes global , first you need to give all you  statutory functions like CIMA UK.

CA and ICAI will whole heartly promote our Indian CWA or CMA to fight global CIMA.  but if you wan to beat Indian , our own brother , this is not acceptable. 

Take the example of USA,  Big Boss CPA US never listen of  CMA UA>.Even CMA US do accept CPA US as exlusive Accounting regulator.

Honestly  speaking , all CA want to promote Indian CWA or CMA globally , we want to make it Like IIM or super b school. But the all the statutory attestation functions should be handed over to ICAI.

We welcome CWAI.

Raman,

USA Canada and UK are having much matured MP or representative in comparison to these countries.

Please do not disrespect our MPS , they have run this great country for more than 64 years , not you.

Intelectual level doe not come from being a ranker or cost accounatnt,

You will not  able to answer regarding queris on CMA Of Canada US and UK. They will be proved  you a fooliesh before them.

Mr.Rajat Kumar Gupta,

The fact that you are not even aware of A.N.Raman. That this gentleman is the present President of SAFA and a member of the IFAC-PAIB Committee tells something about your level of awareness of the accounting profession and the global accounting framework.

So no point debating with you.

thanks anyways and kind regards,

No problem Sir,

I have searched  facts to the my best level.  I request all of  you , that better place will be supreme court. They can decide what is wrong and what is right? Please go ahead, At least facts should prevail, i and you who is wrong.

Dear Mr Rajat Gupta,

Let us discuss as professionals and do not get into personal attacks and challenge my credentials. I posted first in the forum and hence I introduced myself as a balanced professional. I have also authored book on the status and evolution of global cost and management accounting profession globally  and i do enjoy a global footprint as a spokesman of the accounting profession from  India. Certainly I am not a parliamentarian or an intellectual.

The evolution of cost accounting profession in the countries such as Canada , USA and UK are totally different from that of South Asia. The corporate sector in these regions have crossed a maturity level of behaviour in these countries and hence the domain never played a regulatory role. IN FACT , this is being repented now. The costing subject has alwyas been considered as a non regulatory domain in contrast to South Asia. This has also been recognised in the IFAC document on costinh which has stated that audit of cost information is a good practice.

In the above context, in India , pakistan and Bangladesh, the maturity levels of corporate sector is yet to move higher as reflected in many global surveys. In case you would like to challenge me on this please first refer to such global documents. Maintenance of cost accounting records is a compliance activity and the ICWAI as a cost accounting body was formed much earlier with a statutory recognition. Hence the role of cost accounting and cost audit has been assigned to ICWAI. This has not been challenged by anyone including ICAI and hence you need not bring that under this debate.

We are talking of only management accounting domain. Like ICAI and ICWAI have accepted secretarial audit by CS but other than this audit both a CA and CWA enjoy various roles under company law. We have also not challenged as to why a student passing the exams of ICSI should be called as a company secretary. At the same time, roles other than secretarial audit are open to all. In the same way, the cost audit can be reserved to a professional called cost and management accountant but the field of management accounting is like a management consultancy field and any one can do anything.. we should have this frame of mind to accept it just like we say financial audit should be restricted to CA .

Only if we have mutual respect and talk tension free we can see the logic from both ends.

A.N.Raman

Dear Mr Rajat Gupta,

for your kind information i am puting MCA's stand as per 25th report of the Standing Committee on Finance of Fifteenth Loksabha

In Para 19 MCA's views

"―.….There are several countries such as Canada, USA, UK, Bangladesh, Pakistan and Sri Lanka where the dual model of accounting institutes exists. In none of these countries confusion has been created by the existence of two titles and both CMAs and CAs co-exist in harmony rendering service to the society. The objections of ICAI to name change do not seem to carry conviction."


In Para 20

"―There does not seem to be infringement between the interests of the members of ICAI and ICWAI. The syllabus of all the three Institutes have law papers but they do not practice in courts. Many of the papers in the three Institutes are common but Company Secretaries and Cost Accountants cannot practice the profession of financial auditing unless they become member of ICAI. Financial Accountants world over are known as ―Chartered Accountants‖ or ―Certified Public Accountants‖. The title ―Chartered Accountant‖ is on the lines of nomenclature in UK just before independence or passage of bill in 1949. Similarly, professionals of ICWAI could also use the nomenclature prevalent internationally."

In Para 24

"―In the Acts of the three Professional Institutes Chartered Accountants, Cost Accountants and Company Secretaries have been defined as the members of the respective Institutes. In the Acts of the three Professional Institutes Chartered Accountancy, Cost Accountancy and Company Secretaryship have not been defined. Perhaps there is no need to define the management accounting and the role of management accountants."

Compare this with Moily's stand on the debate.

Regards

Sir,

First of all , it is my great pleasure to have debate with personalty like you. And thank you from heart for making indian accounting  profession proud by doing great job.

I am not challenging your personal credential at all.but tried to convey you the facts of online debate.

I want to say that If US , canada and UK nevers need regulation for cost accountancy. and They converted cost and cost accounting as CMA. I

CWA is demanding the same on the ground of global practices citing exmples of above countries.why CWA does not openly speak  that Cost accounting is not required to regulated, if it is required , be it regulated by ICAI.

For the brand and name sake , ICWAI can cite the examples of US ,Canada and UK. On the other hand ,

to enjoy regulatory authority , it is giving examples of south asain countries and maturity level of  corpoarte India.

Let ICWAI replicate fully CIMA UK functionalities , as ex President clearly mentioned  ICWAI was origined from It.

Again ICWAI face double standard policy because one side it is demanding removal of " Chartred word. On the other hand, It wants to be part of colonial body CIMA UK.

Sir, not justifiedThe person like you can take the whole matters to Internal court of justcie. They will decide  which accounting body should be regulator of nation or cost acounting or managment accounting.

Sir, I  want to be with facts. Not with ICAI or ICWAI. If i am not correct , i wan to be corrected.

Mr. Anwar 

Then you should realise the very fact that whether MCA was supporting ICAI or ICWAI.

Defnatlty ,It was supporting ICWAI, the current situations and practices in Indian accounting does not permit govt to ignore importance of ICAI. 

India has its own set up of accounting regulation , no need to copy from other countries. let Inernational body define management acounting , if they advocates it should be regulated , No can refrain ICWAI to become sole regulator of India acounting profession. It can change its name as it likes.

No body will interfere.