Ideas to make articleship better.........

Articleship 2678 views 23 replies

Subbaraman

Article clerk studying for PCC

37 Points Joined May 2009

I have gone through many forums where articled assisstants criticise articleship & C.A's putting forward benefits like the 3 years articleship prepares the CA for future troubles........ well let me put forward a few points

An articled assisstant is expected to learn on the job, thereby supplementing practical training with theory, but in most cases an article just works on tax matters (basic ones in most cases) or audit in which case subjects like costing & finance management are never done practicaly.
A professional course is not a military organisation where article assistants should always go through hell. The basic idea of a professional course of intermingling of practice & theory is lost if the conditions in the firm is not students oriented.
Some people might feel that such rigorous training is required to get the best out of the student but I would like to point out to them that professional courses abroad have better working conditions, professional bodies like CIMA, ACCA etc give exemptions in practical training if done in an industry as an intern, thereby articleship under their practicing members is not compulsary. Why cannot our institute also frame some guidelines on the same manner ? I am not saying that we must emulate them but rather try to innovate make articleship more meaningful then it already is.
I suggest that an article after 1.5 years under a C.A must be given the option to take transfer to an industry or if he wants to specialise in subjects like management accounts, company law, allow him to do article under C.S, C.W.A etc

As a PCC student I am totally frustrated by

the extremely outdated syllabus in subjects like costing & Information Technology
The fact that for one year I have been doing nothing but vouching & Filing of records

Please give your views too & at least try to make articleship more interesting in the current situation

Replies (23)

Guest

Mr.Subbaraman during the first year itself u cant expect them to give u finalisation work or tax audit work independently....everyone does vouching work in their first year and afterwards only they may be given other work as said above.And regarding the working conditions, well, only some big firms are doing the work professionally..mostly the articles in the small firms suffer a lot regarding quality of work, low stipend, insufficient leave for exams,etc....And small firms they specalise only in a particular field and some are specialised in a particular industry alone(in my previous firm, i had done only statuory audit alone that only for automobile manufacturing cos. alone).The articles are not exposed to other sectors like banking,finance, construction, software,etc....Nowadays, CAs are more exploitative(not generalising).If they pay u a stipend of Rs.1,500, they extract work equivalent to Rs.20000 from u..And most of all, our Institute must relax some of its rules to some extent in the sense that In CA course, students are already exposed to higher amount of stress asn Institute must not add more pressure in it..certain rules like banning transfer should be relaxed to some extent cos if a student gets a good opportunity after joining a firm, he should be given a chance to widen his horizon.

Guest

definitely this exposure in articles is important....So, i accept to some rules brought by ICAI for complaining regarding dummy but restriciting transfer is not the only solution to control dummy..

And experience in Industry is necessary if u r gonna go to industry after qualifying ur CA cos industry demands a different kind of experience than the one which we r exposed during our articles.i.e they need finance pro. and managers whereas we are exposed mostly to audit and taxation during our articles which ll be useful when we take up practice alone

Anurag

service

378 Points Joined January 2009

hi i totally agree with u . ca students especially cpt cleared find life hellish especially if u join a small ca firm like i have done.It is completely different if u join the biggies through contacts.I know many members may not apreciate my point of view but this is the true fact.Also the restrictions imposed on Transfer is not fair.Do u think any small practising chartered accountant is a fool to give secondment.He will always think that keeping an articled assistant is a cheaper option as compared to a peon.articled assistant will do all kinds of job be it making entries,filing of returns,doing some personal work like brining tea,paying electricity and telephone bills of the boss,run around the whole of mumbai to apply for boss's daughters exam aplication for cet,etc,etc.

the institute must take steps in this regard as rightly pointed out by mr.subbaraman.there is no need to emmulate other institutions but our institute can itself set an example.

but they say ca profession mey sab kuch chalta hain.so be it

Guest

Yes i to agree for this... We need not follow aborad institutions. But for middle class people who wants to be a CA, its very difficult to work as articled trainee for three years. The stipend he gets in the cities like Davanagere (Karnataka) is not more than Rs 1500/-. How he can live in this costly world?... If he/she joins any organisation, they will get not only good salary but also good exposure. CA institute must think of this. Restricting transfer of articles is really unfair. Many CAs are taking unfair advantage of it...

Sumit Jain

4760 Points Joined January 2009

thanx for sharing

Krunal Raichura

Financial Advisory

2134 Points Joined September 2007

Subbaraman is right.

Even a large part of the FM syllabus is quite theoretical.

The option to take a transfer is a fundamental right in the sense a person should have the right to choose with whom to work/undergo training and for how much time. There could be restrictions on the same to the extent it prevents unfair practices. Today, the restrictions have created unfair practices on behalf of members.

Before imposing so may restrictions on students, ICAI should have reviewed the state of affairs of their members and firms.

My ideas of making articleship interesting is to do tit for tat. Most of the people complain that CAs are behaving in a completely unprofessional, rude, adamant manner. I have also seen posts where students have mentioned that CAs are very egoistic, confused and give very vague instructions and shout. I am sure they would do all this to make you feel you are a nut and you dont know anything. Their feedback will be very vague, neither will it be objective nor will it be helpful. The contents of their feedback will be their own jealousy, ill feelings for you and will not help you understand what you did wrong and how you can improve. Never take any tension of any work. If all this is true, which I feel it is, then do tit for tat. Considering the stipend, the UNPROFESSIONALISM of CAs, the adamant and egoistic attitude, the routine nature of work, vague instructions and the tendency to exploit, tit for tat sounds quite reasonable. Enjoy yourself wherever and whenever you can. If seniors shout, do the same at double voice. Dont tolerate personal remarks.

Dont worry about the fact that many people in this forum and outside will tell you that you wont get to learn much by doing the above. But thats not an issue at all because there are many jobs outside accounting, auditing and taxation which are far more remunerative than the traditional jobs which most of the CAs do. Im aware of many CAs outside these three domain areas, doing completely different work than what one learns in the CA course and articleship. Further, there is no law in this world which says that you will learn only if you tolerate the unprofessional, adamant, egoistic and rude behaviour of seniors. There is no law which says that you will not learn unless you do repititive work.

Remember this always and just keep in mind that for those who want to do jobs (90% of ICAI members are doing jobs), CA should be viewed only as an easy way of getting a job, getting an entry into the industry, thats it. Its the cheapest degree, the most economical way to get a start. If a student is confident enough to make it to the top bschools, its great, otherwise CA is a good option because the salary of an MBA from average bschool is similar to what a CA gets.However, an MBA from average bschool is quite costlier than CA. Timewise, if a person does MBA, it will be 12+3+2, and CA will be 12+5 (approx) which amounts to the same time.

Focus on learning as well. But learn those things which will help you in your future roles. Doing the same work every now and then is of no use. Learning those things which wont help you in your desired future jobs is a waste of time because time is less.

So just grab that piece of paper somehow asap. Once you are somebody in some company, once you are at a very good position, your achievements are enough to speak everything for you. Past will be immaterial in future and present will be past soon.

Cheers! Enjoy.

ABDUL RAHEEM

CA FINAL

47 Points Joined December 2008

Originally posted by :Sumit Jain
"	thanx for sharing	"

Hii, ask your senior or the Chartered Accountant under whom you are working to give you some work where you can learn and improve yourself, as an article studient you arenot just suppose to do vouching, as him to give you exposure to financial statements

Naresh Biyani

Manager-Investment Banking

115 Points Joined July 2009

My dear friend i am agree with you ..............all the such things as you have written are faced by articals .

i think this is only for the helps of members.......................saste me majdur mil jate hai.........as per institute time is of 6 hours but no one day of my articalship is less than 9 hours..................and at the time of ITT exam they not allowed the leave as allowed by Institute..........they are paying a nominal stiphioned......and taking work10 to 20 times of that.........Very Less laeve for examination.........the thing doesnot make any differance on them that you will pass or fail you will be able to do study or not .............although i have missed my 85% classes.......................classes timing is from 6 to 9 and i AM LEFting office at 8.....................

Bhawagan Bachaye aise CA principle se yaar pura thak chuka hun.......................................and Transfer bhi allowed nahi hai.................

Naresh Biyani

Manager-Investment Banking

115 Points Joined July 2009

The members are taking unfair adventage of the rules.........they should be punished...........

Institute me bhi politics bahut chalti hai........sab apni apni sochte hai.......agar Members ko kush nahi rakhenge to vote kon dega............

arpit a rathi

article

43 Points Joined June 2009

The institute should not curb the practice of taking transfer as it is difficult for a middle class family to have an articleship in mumbai,he has to make whole arrangements of food,living etc &stipend he gets is a meagre,how could he afford to have his dream of completing articleship from financial mecca (Mumbai),is Institute listening????

Subbaraman

Article clerk studying for PCC

37 Points Joined May 2009

The point Im trying to make is that a C.A student requires the right mixture of theory & practical experience, which he is unable to get in more than 99% cases, therefore my question is that what should be done in the present circumstances to get the most from articleship.

Guest

We have to join a firm which will provide us the kind of exposure which we need. But information about the firm must be obtained from our friends or our seniors not from the FCAs of the firm cos no FCA will speak bad about his firm...They will tell that their firm is India's no.1 firm even though it is crap

Guest

Our Institute has to take some measures in ensuring that students are getting trained in the right manner in the sense that getting a written undertaking from the articles alone every year that he is undergoing articles in the manner prescribed doesnt guarantee that he ll be getting exposure..Many will be working but how many are getting exposure..Auditing a particular type of Industry in the begining may be exposure but after 2 two years if u are, were and still auditing the same type of industry as ur firm doenot specialise in any other type of industry means that u r doing only work but not having exposure

rolly

qwerty

58 Points Joined November 2008

The Institute takes all kind of steps to ensure that the articles do not escape the training. but do they take a single step to ensure that the articles are getting the right kind of training that is needed by them or to check that they are not being burdened unnecessarily. i agree with mr. naresh biyani that the principal is at a much adavantaged position by getting "saste majdur" . it is the articled assistant who has to undergo the monotonous routine of articleship and also take out time for studies. it would not pinch such if we get the oppurtunity to acquire knowledge on the other subjects instead of only tax and audit.