I am not supporting anna hazare

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First of all I m neither Pro-Anna nor against him. there are some points for which I support and some points where I dont see any sensible reason for them to be met. If any hardcore anna supporter can clarify me with these I will be more than happy for that. My questions are as follows:

  1. How a lokpal will be appointed? If its by polling system,then why dont we do away with the system of  executive??? Appoint one lokpal and lokayuktas and let them administer the nation.
  2. So much powers in one hand,will it be feasible??
  3. Giving powers to CBI to initiate inquiry against anyone's without any  permission and power to lokpal to suspend any judge without anybody's permission,it means constitution will be rendered useless(sorry to say it,but i will be).
  4. Why are they forcing the goverenment to accept their draft only,even every bill introduced  in parliament  goes into a lot of changes before becoming an act??
  5. They want Lokpal and lokayukta to hear every complaint?? In a population of above 100 crores,is it possible??

I m not saying all their demands are over the top,but many are.The thing is I neither want Congress to win neither anna,I just want INDIA to win,but civil society's demands seems to be straight out of Rajnikanth movie,a bit exaggerated..

Answers to my objections are welcome...

 

PEACE
 

Replies (54)

 

The current Facebook generation needs to understand first of all what is corruption? As far as Anna Hazare movement is concerned, youngsters first need to understand - is really goverment's version of Lokpal is really bad? No. It does not contain PM to be included thats all.

The Prime Minister should be excluded from the purview of the bill as he is already covered under the Prevention of Corruption Act and the CBI can investigate. Morever if that clause is included then the bill could be used by foreign powers to “destabilise” the nation as if the Prime Minister was included under the Bill, he cannot function as he would have to focus more on defending himself against the accusations.It would seriously dent the PM’s authority even if charges were proved wrong.

Moreover parties like nonsecular or religious minded polictical parties will try to oppose the PM , who MAY BE A  broad minded and nice person. Offcourse if a PM is found to be a fraud, nationwide protest would be made and PM can be removed. So there is no need for PM to be included in Lokpal Bill. Anna and presently even other parties , desperate to be back in public eyes and power, are cashing on , in this so called jokepal bill, introduced by Govt.   Reality is Lokpal is not really as made out to be by some sections of society and The establishment of Lokayukta as said by Govt  will tackle state-level corruption and will serve as a helping hand to the Supreme Court too as probing in every case of CBI is not possible.

Remeber our PM Manmohan Singh , DOESNOT have problem in him personally being included.as everyone knows and is of opinion that he is utmost honest person and has been a grea financial minister too. Goverment is  only relenting on having PM and top level official under that purview in this bill thats all, that too so that no one destablises any governments' PM in the future that easily..without proper reasons or with wrong accusations. Also the recent scams have exposed corruption in DMK, SP and BJP parties and not Congress persons directly . Also those who are gulity, be it from any party, must be punished but not those who are innocent.

 Am not supporting any party rightnow, but saying this wastage of energy and money happening on promoting few guys of Anna Team , is bringing our nation down and gives impression that a good governance can be brought down easily. Media and younsters need to be responsible.

Last two days, what has been happening? Why no one questions who is funding the SMS being forwarded, the event management company and people who are arranging TV interviews and schedule with different channels,  what about Sawant Commission charges imposed on Kisan Baburao read PM 's statement - https://www.hindustantimes.com/News-Feed/newdelhi/PM-defends-Anna-s-arrest-says-his-path-is-totally-misconceived/Article1-734168.aspx,  

Our Goverment , at the top, is already pressing for Lokpal Bill, DTC and GST bills but its being delayed by others and not our govt. 

 

 If the highest executives and judicial officers are included in the purview of Jan Lokpal Bill, there will be 'total anarchy. 

Read them https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chandigarh/India-against-corruption-Kapil-Sibals-father-slams-Annas-agitation/articleshow/9623836.cms

Download the various pdf files from the link below & read theses. Your doubts will be clarified. Instead of asking other you should read the Jan Lokpal Bill

https://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/downloads.html

Originally posted by : R K SINGH

Download the various pdf files from the link below & read theses. Your doubts will be clarified. Instead of asking other you should read the Jan Lokpal Bill

https://www.indiaagainstcorruption.org/downloads.html
 

Bhai I m not saying k what government is doing is right,but what "Civil Society" is demanding is totally unconstituional and I agree with Kapil Sibbal what he said in the parliament today.. And if u can shed some light on the apprehensions of Hazare camp with regard to this bill, i wil be very grateful to you,coz after reading the draft, I asm unable to zero in on the contentious issues.....

Ok. Now let me answer some of your doubts and question some of you beliefs:

1) How is a Chief Justice of Supreme Court. You know that and you will know how Lokpal will be elected.

2)People fear that we are making him a super PM i.e. he will have complete control over the country. But people forget that he is an ombudsman who will look over a facet of economic crimes in our country i.e. Corruption. He will still be under controls of Parliament and Judiciary and even more importantly President. That is to say that he could be impeached if he commits any foul play. His powers are also limited only to an extent of the scope of complaint raised by a complainant.

3) People afraid of total anarchy are turning a blind eye to the current situation where the so called elected Government is going against the wishes of the people of its own country. Apart from Judiciary, all the Government organizations are directly, in control of the Congress leading to their complete domination over all the affairs of the country, which means that democracy becomes highly handicaped and slave to wishes of just one political party.

4)Use and misuse of CBI by the Government has been observed since Congress started using it for political gains. Its imperative that its control is shifted to a neutral person, not interested in the aspirations of a any political party.

5)Actually civil society is just asking Government to put the bill in the parliament as they want.They have no problems if the bill is rejected by the parilament. Therefore, I am slightly confused as to why Congress is not putting the bill drafted by the civil society as it is bound to get rejected by the Parliament? Frankly speaking they are committing a political blunder as opposition are going to be the real beneficiaries of this situation,  that they could have easily avoided.

6)When a person becomes critical of the anti-corruption movement, you have got to ask why? Why do you think that Corruption can'y be eliminated? Why do you feel that corruption should be eliminated in completion or else Lokpal is a waste. Any gain made through this bill is an achievement. People are talking about 60-70% gains but in my view even one percent gain is enough to have a strong bill. It works by creating fear in corrupt people's mind which ultimately results in lower corruption through chain reaction.For e.g. In delhi there was widespread instances of electricity theft in last decade but then penal provisions were were introduced which has brought down the rate to 5%(unavoidable) which previously was about 40-50%

7)People should note that this bill was not initiated or created by civil society. This bill was brought to table by the Government itself. Government want it to be weak so that they can retain control of the country.

8) With a proper mechanism we can have successful, corruption free system. Its not as if all all the people in our country will start raising complaints at once. Also there are some penal provisions for complaints made with an intention of mischief but they are rather harsh in Government 's format. Look it all comes down to the will that corruption should be removed. I am not talking about making dialogues to change the system . If you watch films, news, television serials etc., you would have heard the statement that we need to change the system as it has become old and corrupt. Now when there is that change taking place, why should people have problem?

9) A true anti-corruption person would not want to create an atmosphere of instability as the fight is not Congress Vs Civil Society but the war is about People Vs Bad System.

I have tried to answer all your queries which may not be in any specific order. I don't hope to satisfy you completely as I am just a lay man but I feel being a sceptic is no problem at all. You are right when you say you are neither pro-anna nor you oppose him because this is the attitude we all should have. We should take calculated steps but we should not be scarred to take them as this is about our motherland and the 1.21 billion people living in this country.

 

Now allow me go a little aggressive on congress empathizers:

Q No.1 - Gandhis gave a lot of sacrifice for the country so why are you against them?

Ans: We are not against Gandhis but people who say that(in media and otherwise) are the people who are insulting every soldier, revolutinary who has given his own blood for the country. Gandhis may have given blood but they have left scars on the country which cannot be forgotten. Discussing those would not be good for the reputation of this forum.

 

Q. No.2 - Congress is a secular party and BJP non-secular.


Ans: This is just like saying that congress is corrupt and BJP not. Actually, in reality i.e. practically we all know what these parties are.Opportunist and self-centered. Where Congress adventures are known to us let us not forget that some people from BJP and Shiv Sena were allegedly involved in a failed plot to kill Anna Hazare. Rajiv Gandhi while he was PM very famosly let innocent people die in name of revenge. All I am trying to say is that they are made of same skin but BJP people are nationalist albeit sometimes leading them to a wrong path.

 

Q. No.3 - If our PM is covered under Prevention of Corruption act then why is he still the PM of our country?

Ans:  Comeon, we all know about his involvement in CWG scam and do not forget that PMO's name always keeps coming to surface whenever such scams come to notice of public. Do you mind to ask why? What you will see in PMO is the alignment of POLITICIANS AND BUREAUCRATS towards common cause of corruption and self growth.

 I am sorry but your funding question is funny. Believe me go to Delhi or mail them and ask them their funding patters/donors but also ask Mrs. Sonia gandhi and Mayawati, about the people they get their money from. Lets see where you will get the answer from first.

Youngsters are responsible and intelligent and on write path and  not being afraid of change as it only brings more opportunites with some challenges but should we be scarred of the challenges, No.

You know a big section of society did not believe that Britishers should be asked to leave the country. But then a man named M.K. Gandhi came from South Africa and told people that we need to get freedom because freedom is sweet. Britishers said that this man is mad, imprisoned him wanted to imprison him for life just like what is happening with Anna Hazare, Ramdev and RTI activists.This world will keep your freedom in their grasp if you are not ready to fight. I dare say that freedom was imprisoned by maharajas that ruled us, the moghuls who came after them and the Britishers who came to india on the pretext of trading with us. And then came our beloved politicians. You see what happened when we were not free, we were killed if we disobey, we were used as slaves, we were pressed down to live in poverty, equality became a joke, rich became richer and poor became poorer.This is what is happening now, isn't it.

You gave two links of news having written from the perspective of congress and that too from the people associated with Congress. I request you to read the most agreed comments on the same piece of news and you will know what nation wants. 

Our P.M. have been parotting that Parliament is the whole and sole of democracy. I object and I advise you to read the constitution, Mr. P.M. it is People who are the whole and sole of democracy.

"ONE FOR ALL and ALL FOR ONE"

 

Note: We all have the right to present our views. I might be correct or I might be wrong but if I am wrong correct me. Finally, we all want good for not only ourselves but also the 1.21 billion people who live on this land called
'INDIA' and I hope we will succeed. We just need to ask the questions as citizens like the person who created this post did.

Thank You.

 

 

@ anubhav- thanks dude for such a nice explanation,I have my answers now.

@ Future CA CS  : Thanks for raising objections.
 

issue is not here that lokpal bill will control corruption or not , but in past decades , corrupt politics had twisted the rules and laws in their favors and made the shelters within them 

 

even today a parellal admin system is here, President> Governer>District Collector who has equal and sometimes more power than legistative ..........but corrupt politics made them paralysed and now they have to seek permission from legistation to act on any issue, 

 

lokpal and lokayukt will not hold any power within them, but will look into the cases without asking permission from anyone, as asked earlier that these ppl would be from judiciary system nominated by judiciary itself, so the question of elective does not arise.

 

lokpal will look into issues and fix the charges and instruct the respective body to rectify their errors, it will work alike ombudsman for govt affairs. and if the person concerned does not bothers to comply then he will send the case to judiciary for legal action.

 

today if we find somebody selling the gas cylinder in black market in place of alloting the person in queue, and when asked for ...................they reply on face .........go and make complaint against me ............. leave the place . where should we go ? coz they are tricky , they know how to play with rules and how to make suitable entries in their records .........

a simple person will get some relief atleast ..........

 

after RTI, we cant say that everyone got honest, but at most places the work is in process atleast , example is BSNL, where work culture is back almost .........and there is somebody now who listen the complaints.  

on every crossing there are street lights which works 

on every 2nd crossing there is traffic hawaldar ...who shows signals

on every 8 crossings tehre is one police station 

on every 5th point there is one sergent

 

still there is need of vigilance traffic jeeps, who park on roadsides and halt the vehicles passing by for bigilance check ...........when whole the above four are working (?) and making nuicence on street traffic, there is need of something where the vehicle driver will feel himself under some pressure atleast, so that he would drive right and does not generate mess on roads, so that traffic would go easy 

 

 

prob is there that 90% govt ppls are fearless coz they know line of action cant do anything against them, they will get shelter of local politicians, trade unions, and their office coleques, so a parellal but unknown system is seeked there just to make them alert that on their mishandling of services can put them in trouble........... its not the intention of bill or rule to punish for every ABC , but speedy alert is now required before the damage may go beyond irrecoverable.

I totally support Mr. Narayan and Mr./Ms."Future CA n CS"....

 

Im nt at all against Anna....bt, I really believe that there should be a way of doing things....a practical modus operandi.

Anna has a lot of supporters, the best he should and can do is to come up with a political party and stand in the next elections...im sure he will win....infact, even I will vote for him  :)

Rallies are held otherwise also, but with prior permissions and authorisations from the govt. as well as the police...but this is no way that roads were blocked and so much of inconvenience was caused to all the ppl who were going for/coming back from work.

Every decision should be backed by the Lokpal's approval....but, will it be fair o the whole judicial and political system ??? 

 

I believe India is a democracy and we all have the right to do and say what we want to....bt that should nt harm the law and order situation of the country...also, putting so much ofpower in one committees hands can prove to be dangerous.

 

Anna, Hon' Mr.Shantibhusan, Kiran Bedi, Mr. Kejriwal, etc ....i.e. all the existing leaders are very much capable and credible to form such a committee, but can they give a GUARANTEE that their successors will be as corruption free and as truthful/sincere as they are??

 

I had voted for Congress.....it represents me in the decision making process..wht will be the purpose of the election system if the Lokpal ppl will govern the whole system ?? 

-> Abt 95% of the CA students are sick and tired of their CAs' behaviour. And, this is nt a story that has cropped up today .... its a problem being faced by most of the articles since yrs and yrs....bt, does that mean, that all of us should come on the roads, and protest?

     Certainly NO!!! There is a way....we can put up a comlaint in the instt, or go to the court....recently only came a SC judgement, wherein the answersheets of CA,CS,CWA,XII,X, etc can be seen by the students.... So, go for an RTI application to the PRO...

 

I basically wnt to emphasize on the fact that there is a way of doing things....n as good citizens of India, we must follow it...

@ Mallika - for your information update

 

 

 

Right to Information movement

In the early 2000s Hazare led a movement in Maharashtra state which forced the state government to pass a stronger Maharashtra Right to Information Act. This Act was later considered as the base document for the Right to Information Act 2005 (RTI), enacted by the Union Government. It also ensured that the President of India assented to this new Act.[53] Law professor Alasdair Scott Roberts said:

The state of Maharashtra – home to one of the world's largest cities, Mumbai, adopted a Right to Information Act in 2003, prodded by the hunger strike of prominent activist, Anna Hazare. ("All corruption can end only if there is freedom of information," said Hazare, who resumed his strike in February 2004 to push for better enforcement of the Act).[54]

On 20 July 2006 the Union Cabinet amended the Right to Information Act 2005 to exclude the file noting by the government officials from its purview. Hazare began his fast unto death on 9 August 2006 in Alandiagainst the proposed amendment. He ended his fast on 19 August 2006, after the government agreed to change its earlier decision.[55]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Hazare

@ US Sharma

 

Dear Sir

Thanks for the reply ! 

I would like to add to what you wrote above. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/anna-hazare-the-guest-editor/top-headlines/They-dont-steal-mangoes-in-Anna-country/articleshow/8002329.cms?prtpage=1

 

This article talks abt how Anna changed the face of a village which was droght prone....I have read allot abt him and his precious movements that stirred the nation and the Government...but, the permanent way to end all this, with the high probability of the public support, is to make a party and stand in the forthcoming elections....that way he will be politically, socially and constitutionally correct !!! All I wanna say is that I do not support his movememnt's modus operandi.... 

then what you have to say about the social activists?

baba saheb ambedakar was elected member of parliament or mahatma gandhi was?

winning election and sitting in parliament is the job of politicians (money and muscle power show biz), not of social activists.

 

law and order disorder is imposed by delhi police backed by central govt, not by any social activists, who got arrested from their home itself .................and if they had broken law and order then why they issued release order.........

on which politically twisted laws we are living now, where police can arrest anybody for their vested interest and release after ...........

 

 

and the parliament way was adopted by him, submission of his bill to standing comitee(?) as advised by cabinet.............which is put in store room, nobody is in mood to discuss about that ....................and bringing a parellal "self appreaisal lokpal bill for self benefit" saying its parliamentary right to make rules .........

 

The way the police had arrested him was socially incorrect....bt, they say they did it because they were allowing Anna to sit on the fast with max 5000 supporters for 3 days .... bt, Anna neither affirmed, nor waited for their confirmation and went abt for the rally...that is why they had imposed section 107 and 151 ... and these sections well justify the situation...they do not exempt/exclude any social activists from their ambit ....

In 2011, Hazare initiated a Satyagraha movement for passing a stronger anti-corruption Lokpal (ombudsman) bill in the Indian Parliament as conceived in theJan Lokpal Bill (People's Ombudsman Bill). The Jan Lokpal Bill was drafted earlier by N. Santosh Hegde, former justice of the Supreme Court of India andLokayukta of KarnatakaPrashant Bhushan, a senior lawyer in the Supreme Court and Arvind Kejriwal, a social activist along with members of the India Against Corruption movement. This draft bill incorporated more stringent provisions and wider power to the Lokpal (Ombudsman) than the draft Lokpal bill prepared by the government in 2010.[70]

 

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so in the view of yours and the govt - that such ppl who formed the bill are not aware of legistation and parliamentary rights?


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