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Does articleship help in clearing your CA exams?

Page no : 3

Krunal Raichura (Financial Advisory) (2134 Points)
Replied 03 November 2009

Originally posted by :Pushpendra Gaur
" you all guys may not have learned the real meaning of training. its the platform, we can experience the happenings of ur learnings in the theory, Theory is the base for practical. Untill and unless u r solid in theory you can't understand the meaning of the subjects in their real meaning. even inn small firm a people can learn much than in big firm. even the members of small firms are cooperative than the Corporates which runs on rules and set standards only.

It depends on the way how you approach training. if had interest in training, you can understand the real meaning of the theory and moreeven, in papaers like Indirect tax,Accountancy, Audit, Law its very helpfful. I feel very sorry for someones comment that IT is theoritical. Remember in \todays world, no building can be built without foundation, its all about the future where you all had to step in, its not works on the paper but on electronic data. Until and unless you know the importance of basic terms, how can you interpret fault in large information system.

It all about your thinking about the thing thats make the different. Bada socho aur bada pao. Ek gareeb k paas Car nahi hoti phir bhi woh usme chalne k sapne dekhta hai, so what you are not working in large firms, be prepared yourself to work at the largest level.

Moreoover, in large firms too many people have restrictive knowledge not full knowledge.

Understand the theory in real terms and learn its real meaning, why it is for.Practical training helps to improve your understanding levels of your theory.
"

 

 

Is such stupid theory as we have in IT, FM and SM a base for practical learning...???

Its like saying that first keep reading whatever that comes, and then go ahead for practical training and realize that all that you read is non sense.....and im sorry to say, but this kind of appraoch which ICAI and as a whole many other courses have been following is quite immature.

I dont think corporates work mechanically as you wrongly mentioned, thats a myth.

If you want to learn to interpret faults in big systems, you can always go ahead and do CISA, or courses from cyber law. As if the guys who scored maximum marks in IT subject would be technically strong enough to provide IT solutions. If you think that learning CA PCC IT will help you in anyway do it, I wish you good luck. Even if you are able to solve some of the basic technology problems by studying IT of PCC, we all would surely like to felicitate you and call you to some function to share how you did it.

To step into the future, you need to think on those lines. Having an outdated, irrelevant syllabus won't even take you to past again. Thats what all are saying, that it works on electronic data and not paper. Having a subject with something bull sh*t and calling it as a measure to make CA students IT literate wont help. It is not at all a concrete way of making anybody IT literate.

 

I have been working in a big 4 since long, and I do not think that people in big firms have restrcitive knowledge, thats a myth.

 

If you are talking about thinking in future, there is no point in wasting time to understand theory in real terms and learn its real meaning.To be in future, you have to have a good vision. The current syllabus for some subjects especially those like Information Technology and Financial Management, as many of them have agreed would spoil your vision and would kill your ability to think.

ROsh@N (Future chartered accountant)   (84 Points)
Replied 03 November 2009

 well...as a CA student i havent gt much exposure in articleship bt i could score gud marks in pcc...bt  as far as pcc is concerned articleship can help u in subjects like auditing or income tax n it also depends on place where u work!!...a better option is to concentrate more on articles after ur done with PCC cause FINAL preparation needs lots of practical knwledge...:))

RAKESH (Almost CA) (2199 Points)
Replied 03 November 2009

 for me articleship is like learning practical things at the expense of others. u can do n number of mistakes in ur articleship at the expense of others. articleship helps us in our pratical papers like auditing, tax .......

Krunal Raichura (Financial Advisory) (2134 Points)
Replied 03 November 2009

 From what I can see till now, most of us have agreed that articleship training helps in audit, tax and law papers to some extent depending upon exposure.

However, none of us have been able to talk on other subjects. This clearly shows gap between theory-practical training structure of ICAI.

I apologise if any of my views have sounded rude, offensive.

If any of you feel that subjects like IT, SM and FM under CA syllabus would be helpful to you in writing exams or otherwise, I am sure myself and all of us would be happy for you.

RAKESH AGARWAL (CA Final student) (436 Points)
Replied 03 November 2009

articleship training does not help in exam except in audit and tax...


(Guest)

Well, the reason why I said that Articlehip doesnot help in our study is based on my personal experience. I have been participating in different kind of audits, but I dont feel that it will help in my auditing paper in a major way. I am about  to complete my 2years of articleship but the work exposure I am getting is not satisfactory, even in Metro cities.so I can understand what would be the situation at the micro level.

YEs, as far as practical experience is concerned, it is a first step to learn the corporate ettiquetes...but is surely the extreme point of waht we learn in our bookish environment..I agre e that its a necessity to learn the practical approach but then it should not be at a cost of our study ..bcs first we r a student & then an article....so, I wish Inst change the structure in such a way that students can concentrate either of the two ie study or practical experience...otherwise students would continue to get the hell of both thw worlds.

Regards,

Manasvi

CA Pushpendra Gaur (CA in L & T) (2843 Points)
Replied 04 November 2009

Originally posted by :Krunal Raichura
"
Is such stupid theory as we have in IT, FM and SM a base for practical learning...???
Its like saying that first keep reading whatever that comes, and then go ahead for practical training and realize that all that you read is non sense.....and im sorry to say, but this kind of appraoch which ICAI and as a whole many other courses have been following is quite immature.
I dont think corporates work mechanically as you wrongly mentioned, thats a myth.

If you want to learn to interpret faults in big systems, you can always go ahead and do CISA, or courses from cyber law. As if the guys who scored maximum marks in IT subject would be technically strong enough to provide IT solutions. If you think that learning CA PCC IT will help you in anyway do it, I wish you good luck. Even if you are able to solve some of the basic technology problems by studying IT of PCC, we all would surely like to felicitate you and call you to some function to share how you did it.
To step into the future, you need to think on those lines. Having an outdated, irrelevant syllabus won't even take you to past again. Thats what all are saying, that it works on electronic data and not paper. Having a subject with something bull sh*t and calling it as a measure to make CA students IT literate wont help. It is not at all a concrete way of making anybody IT literate.
 
I have been working in a big 4 since long, and I do not think that people in big firms have restrcitive knowledge, thats a myth.
 
If you are talking about thinking in future, there is no point in wasting time to understand theory in real terms and learn its real meaning.To be in future, you have to have a good vision. The current syllabus for some subjects especially those like Information Technology and Financial Management, as many of them have agreed would spoil your vision and would kill your ability to think.
"

 

Hello friend might you have a great exposure in your friend, then u post such stupid comment, sorry for being personal but talking about 3 subjects which people ask can help in passing the paper or in practical training i mmake u all guide:

FM :- FM is the nicest of the all the subjects, if u had the real knowledge of it. FM is nicest of the all subjects. FM helps you to understand the money and Capital market in good senses. It helps you to know how shares are valued and even when the market has advanced to Futures & Options, Fm will help you to gain the command in all those. What would happens, if a Clients comes to you for asking Financial Reconstruction, what will you guide to him. Just look in Satyam 3 CA's among 4 persons held for reconstruction,including T N manohaan were included. You can guide to forecast his financial expenses and savings.

The problem is that you guys don't have exposure and understanding of the terms well. You won't believe knowledge of same would help in Internal audits and even in analysis of Foinancial Performance when clients asked for it. Many of the Ca firms are engaged with Credit Ratting Agencies and even many CAs are employed in Credit Rating Agency's and Financial institutions. What the hell audit they do there in such or In ICICI which is second big employer to CAs, are ICICI taking CAs for audits or accounting, The answer is NO for there Financial services.

FM helps you manage your clients Portfolio too, guiding them Investment in Currency options, Derivatives, The question, silly like essentiality of FM is the nbiggest stupidity. EVen the course of CA would be irrelevant without knowledge of FM

IT :- To tell you about the need for IT, in many of the organisations like Reliance, various nationalised banks etc use centralised database softwares and maintains large databases. To understand a large Management Information System, you are required to understand the basics very easily. If you all noticed the serious errors which i caught on databases were very serious but without knowledge of IT was not possible.

(1) Wrong Calculations of Revenues by AGR of BSNL softwares for calculating Gross Revenues.

(2) Failure of Canara Bank Software to calculate the correct Interest income, even the software provides automatic calculations of Interest.

(3) Charging of Review Charges by Bank Softwares at wrong dates, other than when they become due.

(4) Mistakes even in Airtel Company recently in charging the Call rates when the new plan of Rs 57 was introduced.

SM :- This subject will help when you join an big organisation and assigned big tasks there, other wise all those guys who are studying MBA are stupid, what really to learn in those rediculous subjects. Just think when u assigned a big task in your Office, then how would you approach if u had no knowledge of Strategy making and tools to implement. Theory are made for them who know to implement them, not for those stupids who want to read, crab and forget.

Even for them everything is wasteful.

 

Krunal Raichura (Financial Advisory) (2134 Points)
Replied 04 November 2009

Dear Pushpeandra,

It seems that you do not have any sense to read carefully.

 

I have never written in any forum that FM or IT or any subject is a bad subject.

Further, I have also not said that every single word in our book is irrelevant. I feel most of the things are and I have mentioned the same accordingly. The way you replied shows as if I said that everything is irrelevant.

 

I have just said that I feel (you and many others may not feel so) that the syllabus of subjects like FM, IT and SM which are there under the existing CA course are irrelevant, impractical.

 

It seems you read everything in sleep, please refer to earlier posts and correct yourself, because I have not mentioned anything about the subjects, but I have talked about its syllabus under the CA course. Financial Management is a subject meant for things like portfolio management, valuation etc , but our syllabus isn’t competent enough that’s one of the reasons why we had to refer to CFA and other books like Ashwath Damodaran for even doing simple work like ratio analysis. The way it is given in CA text book is such that it’s as easy as putting numbers, but practically that’s not the case.

 

Do one thing, compare CFA or  Ashwath Damodaran’s book with our CA MAFA syllabus. I appeal to everyone to do it. Then tell me how good our syllabus is?

 

There is also a book named “Dark Side of Valuations” by Ashwathji, read it and then you will realize that you know nothing. I can bet on this, even if you are thr FM topper in this country you will realize you know nothing.

 

If you feel your stupid knowledge about financial management is above me, can you please tell me why the greatest investor Mr. Buffet never even did a due diligence or any audit before doing most of his acquisitions?

 

You have talked about credit rating agencies and financial institutions, I would kindly request you to interact with CA freshers who are recruited there and ask them what work they do there. I am also aware of CAs getting recruited in hotels, Petroleum companies, fashion companies, film production companies etc, but most (may not be all) are doing work in areas of accounting, auditing and taxation or related areas.

 

ICICI and many other firms maybe recruiting CAs, but most of them are in fields relating to accounting, auditing and taxation. However, surely there can be CAs outside these areas like financial services, management consulting etc, but it’s a tiny number and off course subject to multiple qualifications, because a CA can always do CFA, CFM, CFP, MBA etc and change his domain from accounting, auditing and taxation to something else.

 

I don’t think me or anyone out here needs to learn the importance of IT from you. In my official as well as personal life I have been user of every single technology available. And I surely do not feel that I should be reading a post written by a person who doesn’t even read carefully before replying.

 

I congratulate you for finding system related issues. If you feel that the IT knowledge you gained from CA books has helped you, fair enough, you may go ahead and keep them in your pockets, no one has any issues.

 

Again, when you commented of Strategic Management, you have made us realize the need of it and how it helps. No one ever discussed or said that it’s a stupid subject and not required. I had also commented upon its syllabus under CA course. You may kindly go out of your coaching classes and CA books, go in the outside world, read the Harvard Business Reviews and any book from Harvard, you will realize that you no nothing about Strategic Management although you might have topped CA exams.

 

Even Harvard university studies and research shows that the best of managers in the world today never attended any schools. So all these hifi words which you are using do not surprise me because, because it tells me your ignorance about all the subjects and your defective and lack of reading. Go ahead and see the forbes list of richest people, tell me how many people are even graduates in top 50. You will understand how ignorant you are about life.

 

Theory is not meant for those who implement, its meant for those who want to show that they know a lot. Those who really have the guts to take initiative and implement, do not need to waste anytime in reading either your stupid comments or the irrelevant syllabus of subjects like IT, SM and FM under the CA course.

Vikram M. (Unemployed) (504 Points)
Replied 04 November 2009

Articleship provides great experience in the work of a CA firm. People who do their articleship honestly will be experts in most routine Audit & Tax related matters.

 

Unfortunately, if you've decided to work in the industry then you could do without such specialized knowledge. Large organisations will train you to work in their system. You learn on the job,

Suryakiran (Article) (30 Points)
Replied 04 November 2009

oh yes it does help......

sirisha (student) (74 Points)
Replied 04 November 2009

I think it depends on the nature of the work perfomed by us.


(Guest)

Hi, Well everyone has there own views, but as far as my view is concerned  now forsure i can say yes,in the begining i also think that it will not help me in any manner but when i applied knowledge gained during articleship practically then i realise the worth of it,actually most of the students consider it as a burden on them & they don't implement it in their practical lives,it gives you exposure, u cm 2 k9 abt a lot of things,situations etc....,ya i k9 some students also face some problems but they are not 2 big which u can't dealt,right.............,or in short one must enjoy his/her articleship & must try to grab maximum out of it........................


(Guest)

AKSHAY (ARTICLE) (29 Points)
Replied 05 November 2009

Only the limited extent

 

CA Pushpendra Gaur (CA in L & T) (2843 Points)
Replied 05 November 2009

i am 100 % agreed with u Shikha


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