Constructive things we can do in the current CA system!!

I can also add the following points augmenting the above line of thoughts

1. Do not keep changing syllabus every now and then but keep a fixed pattern say every 2 years, and give feelers beforehand what the changes are going to be to keep everyone informed.

2. Keep the Chairman of the ICAI(After properly selecting him/her based on standing and in a consensual form) for a minimum period of 2 to 3 years and not changing him/her every  year to create further confusion.Also, allow a woman to become chairperson.

3.Conduct motivating seminars for students as they feel very discouraged with the toughness of the course and the exams.

The points which you have mentioned above are absolutely true and if implemented, it would surely improve this career to a great extent !!!

And the point which specifically mentions about reducing the articleship period is quite rightly said, I feel its really tiring and also not in accordance with international standards to strech the epriod to 3-3.5 yrs. And we Indians are just blindly following what the British have left back.

Its a real shame that even now we follow such rigid practices. Its time that we change ourselves.I am being made to experience what my Principle had experienced about 28-30 yrs ago, when he was doing his articleship.(and you know how the conditions were earlier)

And I cant even take a transfer now.(I am bearing it like a True Indian)

When I try to reason with him that times have changed , he say in a typical old fasioned style that I am no one ,who should be teaching him what to do, and he says what he does is absolutely right.

Oh cumon....where are we heading to ? Are we so attached to our wrong side that we cant see anything else ?

I feel that the CA fraternity should modernize themselves in the way they think.( I again didnt mean to generalize anyone here)

HI,

I too would like to add some morepoints.

1. Shorten the articleship upto 2 years..As I think 1.5 years arenot enough to learn. (Anyways, a person who becomes a CA need not necessary to be  an expert in all areas & life itself makes u learn new experience. So, going by that theory, the whole life is short to learn every thing..However, a person should have the basic knowledge of all working areas.So I think 2years are enough.)

2. Institute should make the rules & regulations for ensuring that a student get every fair & equal  chance for  getting exposures in all areas. It can allocate a fixed period for different work area. For example, 5 months to learn statutory audit, 6 months for taxation &tax audit, 2 months for ROC & legal work, or 8 months for Internal audit.

3. In case a CA cant provide exposures to all the specified area above, then provision can be made for allowing transfer or secondment.Or the institute itself should make the rule for members to show up their clients list & the type of work they are getting.o, that no member can show dummy or fake work area / rosy picture to students.This would not only make the firms image transparent but also save students from geting trapped in a wrong firm.

4.Stipend should be increased atleast to make it at par with a B. com passed student.

5. Proper format of work diary or work TIMING should be specified. SO that a student is not made to sit late night.This is very important as I have seen in many firms(including my  firm) where only present or absent is  marked which would not give a clear picture of how many hours the student has worked.IN TIme as well as OUT time should be clearly recorded& signed & approvedby  the concerned principal.The institute should take every steps to ensure that articles are not made to work after 5.30 as provided in its new rule.I should not be on paper but also on real corporate/profeesional world.

6. Member should be trained on how to handle the articles.( I have seen many cases where a newly passed CPT student had been made to handle a statutory audit on the first day of his articleship.) Members should be trained on how to impart an effective training to students(at least new comer should not be allowed to handle an audit without giving him basic training). 

I hope u would find this suggestion helpful.

Thnks

First of all ICAI should not bring changes like pe2 -> PCC -> now IPCC ...If they keep on changing like this , New joining students will get a feel that this ( CA )  course is inconsistent .....

Most of the students who are joining the CA Course are not having full awareness about Total CA Course...( i mean duration , attempts etc ...) CA Course is not like Engineering course  in popularity ....Most of us will have what Engineering course is ....Like that Awareness needed for CA Course among the students of 10th to 12th...

While coming to the point of Dummy articles ICAI  already warned that they will call randomly some students with details of articleship...

If they implement correctly then so many students will be out of the CA course ...They will stop writing him for 3 Consecutive attempts of Exams and his entire period of articleship done will be cancelled

Frankly speaking they are taking revenge on students ....

Earlier these members( ICAI ) also used to work under Auditors ....They are implementing more tougher and typical rules on students which are 2 to 3  times harder than  they previously used to suffer ( i mean at their time of articleship ) frome their auditors ....

But this is not revenge...because they cant take revenge on their auditors ...so they are doing on upcoming students

NOTE: Please dont take it seriously any body .....

Hi Preeti,

Fantastic! I want all girls to participate thus and think for yourselves.

Yes, you are true 2 years seems like a good choice but why did I say 1.5 years? Is it a sort of a magical/random number or do I have a proclivity to it as a personal quirk? Neither!

It was after a careful thought process, I came out with the number.

Following is the take on the issue:

 Human psychology always wants to round off numerals.You say to a shop keeper give me Rs.50 round change keep the rest yourself.And this is an universal phenomenon,mind you and thus we think 1.5 years sounds like an odd number so make it a round figure "2".The brain is not attuned to seeing half-numerals.

This being so,  one and half years I feel is quite sufficient because if a scheme like this is adopted

--->Entrance level exam after 12th---->Requires 1 year prep

---->Level 1---after 1.0 year of Entrance clearance.--At this level of students feel they want to branch out they can be given Accounting Technician degree.

----->Level 2---after 2 years of Level 1 Clearance.

You have a total of 4 years already.In these 4 years ICAI must keep cumplusory classes and model exams(without taxing the students with eligibility requirements like pass the model then only you can sit for the main exam and all such childish things).These 4 years including the Entrance level must be spent by the ICAI and student interaction well.

Now, then after this if you further stretch the timeline by another 2 years then the duration of the course becomes like 6 years.MBBS students themselves come out after 5 years, with the last year as intern.Im giving 6 months more than them.

Also, student-psychology after clearing the exams would be to possess that CA qualification ASAP after clearing Level 2 exams.Which would mean delaying,denying and delgating that by another 6 months; would be giving pain and frustration to them unnecessarily.Ultimately, the quality & future of the profession is majorly determined by the Institute and the students.

These and all made me think that 1.5 years is sufficient.There is not much of a difference in 6 months.They anyways are going to work after the 1.5 years(most probably in the same company as they might be inducted there till they jump to another company).

Also, students who opt for training under an auditor(ie., those who wish to practice) can now command a newfound respect as a co-peer from their seniors than the humiliation,subjugation,frustration,fear,jealousies,insecurities and other negative circumstances surrounding the audit profession these days.Only that Auditors now need to pay them more and reasonably.The auditors too get matured assistants and not mere "ticking clerks" and they dont need to fear the moment--"when is this girl gonna ask me for the study leave and bunk work in my office?" kind of scenarios.

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Your second point is very valid.Well thought of again.

However, pressure should not be made of a mandatory type to force students to seek Internal audit and other types of exposures you have said.What about a person in Agarthala,Tripura or say Kottayyam,Kerela how can he or she manage to get all that you say? How many companies or CAs are willing to have them?Maybe Income tax exposure can be easily given..but what about corporate and other expsoures you talk of?One has to be take all practical considerations while framing a course, just seeing our immidiate environment in the metro cities and deciding, would prove highly painful and detrimental to these type of candidates who dream a big dream and who want to succeed too like us in cities.They have the right to dream thus and I would encourage them to too, because development of India should start from rual pockets.

The moment rigidity and rules come in in a big way, confusion,frustrations and feelings beset from all sides.However rules too are necessary for optimum performance only that too many is a sign of stupidity.The system becomes like an elephant which has fallen down and unable to move.You require a crane to lift it and make it stand on its own legs.Any Institute/organization/society/Country or person must be like a Cheetha or Jaguar--fast to act despite falling down not like some Trynoserex or a megalithic monster!

So,consequently the need to have this 1.5 years practicum to fill that need.

One must train in all areas as you say in a theoretical and if possible on a field tour level including educational videos for students who are interested during the 4 years well.There is something called "Shadowing" which we do in MBA course, where we just shadow a CEO or top level officer and take notes on what he does without disturbing him, for one whole day and submit our observations to our course moderator.Something on these lines can be thought of too but these extra things should not be made mandatory.At the first drop of the hat students start crying fowl.This is the student psychology these days.There is growing frustration,stress,economic recession,pressure to succeed,etc which is eating their souls already.They feel tired.

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When the question of 1.5 practicum with industry comes into question with regular CA salary(reduced a bit till one completes it and gets the qualification),one can do away with the draconian work diary,timings(are we factory workers to maintain such logs?),etc .They are gubernatorial hangings of a bygone British era.Even ICAEW(British CA) have introduced mammoth changes and we are still lagging behind, just fooling ourselves with name changes and introduction of useless courses in the name of 'keeping pace'.

Euphoria and jingoism existent in ICAI must be replaced with practicality and lateral thinking intended to help students,members and soceity in a big way.Nowhere should our Profession's quality take a back-seat.

Then our profession's respect will grow in leaps and bounds.

The current scenario will only make the popularity of the course nosedive among students and we attract only losers,average people and medicoreness to the course and profession.

There can even be a rebel but not a medicore person it is said.Mediocrity sounds the death knoll for any organization.(or society).

Thankyou for your comments,they are well thought of.

nice idea!

nice one... i too agree wit preeti

There is no consistency in CA course.

Secondly, the restriction imposed on articles regarding transfer is meaningless. A professional Course should not be excessively strict beacuse inquisitive students will only prefer such Course and those who are desirous of gaining Knowledge will definitely work hard.

Dear Vidya Shankar,

U seem to be thinking from psychological aspect.As u say, that people dont mind rounding off the number.BUt while thinking from psychlogical side, it's really important to think from practial aspect as well.What I mean to say is that just bcz people get frustrated or cant bear the stress level or just bcz the itraining period is little more than other couse should not be the reason to think of decreasing the training period

One more thing...If u r saying that my idea of  students getting work exposure in different areas seems to b little tough for implementation side..then I think ur idea of shaodwing an entrepreneur/ CEO too seems tough on the same ground , as the students who lives in underdeveloped area would not have a a just & equal opportunity of meeting a MD/higher level authorities, as that area would give less opportunities to students.BUt that should not be the way of thinking.One should encourage the students to come out from this stereo type mind frame. Now a days u must have heard of people going for outstation audit or even out of INDIA as well ...WHy do they go? Just for a good work exposure . SO, the only thing I want to say is that ' When there is a will, There is a way.'I just want the institute to provide an equal opportunities by framing such rules.So, that every one gets equal opportunities.JUst bcz , few cantgrab that opportunity today, its not fair to think that they should b deprived from their right to have a just & fair opportunity in future as well by thinking that they would not grab the opportunityies in future as well.Please correct me if I m wrong. 

1.Psychological aspects of the course should be seen.This has to be given prime consideration.In USA and other western countries almost all courses in management including MBA has a subject called Organizational Behaviour.Infact we also deal with it in our course.

2.CA course is somehting done by humans not andriods and thus psychological factors come heavily.

3. This whole debate tips on one thing and that is psychological factors like-frustration,anger,etc of the students.

4. To attract future brilliant students psychologically--one must have a reasonable duration for any course, I can even have an 8 year course, will that help attracting newer and better talent? Nope, they simply will be put-off by the number of years involved.Young and dynamic thought would be lost.As it is our country suffers from over-aged politicians and do you want our profession to suffer from it too?

5. 1/2 a year is no big deal.The 6 months he is anyways going to work after getting CA Qualification.Maybe even better with high spirits.

6. Complaints from elder members that the maturity levels of students is low and that young blood is not necessary is all highly erroneous and just shows their laidback colonial thinking styles, due to heavy conditioning which we Indians face.Respect to seniors and elders is onething but dynamism and new thought wrt CA is another thing.Do not confuse the two.

Finally at the end of the day if someone says "Do 6 years the CA course and become a CA" sounds like some demonic statement to young people, they would then say, "Nay! I better do some shorter courses, I wanna settle in life fast, who wants this trouble?"If ordinary minds say it, its ok but then even talented people would by peer pressure succumb to the lures of other courses, then we are in trouble.

By rounding off and psychology I meant you who feel that 2 is better than 1.5 and 6 better than 5.5 after it looks neat by rounding off but what I was saying was practical

To be practical in today's world means to understand psychology of people and not purely course content from a logical angle.

In anyways, you are free to hold onto your view!

Please read my comment carefully.Many errors occur due to ommission!

I said after I said that(because I knew you would be ready to pounce me on that) thus:"Something on these lines can be thought of too but these extra things should not be made mandatory"

I said, it need not be mandatory and only for interested students.Also said "on these lines", which means something similar to that and not exactly  that can also be thought of!

Also, the meeting is arranged by the ICAI and not students going and knocking on the doors of CEOs.In my case too, I had a session with Goldman Sachs CEO primarily because it was my B-School which made arrangements, if I went personally and knocked his doors, I would have been shown the door.

Out station audits and out of country audits are good but provided students finish their exams and then go during the practicum.Else they get good work experience but remain students without clearing the exams with lot of distractions.Neither are they satisfied with work experience nor with their persistent exam failure.That is the issue!

It is not an issue or grabbing opportunities or providing of opportunities which is the moot point here.The mootpoint here is the streamlining the operations of ICAI to create a WIN-WIN situation for both members and students.Any lopsided step would only jeopardize the already fragile image and structure of ICAI.

Hope you understand my point.Please dont be picky on some examples I quote, I just quote them on a hypothetical basis or to prove a point but not literally implement it.I know shaddowing a CEO is not a culture here as yet and the attitudes of CEOs is different here than in USA or Canada or Europe.There there is a healthy interaction between the corporates and B-Schools whereas here many things run by egos and petty issues.That is why I used it as a 'lateral think pointer' and then immidiately said "something similar on those lines"

Hope this helps...