Originally posted by : Vivek B. Bhinde
	6. In some cases; examination copies are checked by articled clerks !  Yaa... That is absolutely true even at IFRS level Examination..

Lol.. i dont know whether this is true, if its true then my reply for u guys on the lighter side is this " if articles can check the balance sheet of a company in which investors have invested thousands of crores, whats the problem in them checking the examination papers??" :P:P

Specifically to the Reply of Mr Ramakrishna. Sir I would like to tell you that He was given a writing Pad Pen & Calculator all this the real problem was he was not aware how to calculate & find out the PV factor. As when to his reply of that PV factor is not given I told him its given he was surprised where it is given, & then he was out with the real fact that he never knew how calculate t& find he PV factor but was always given the Factors in all his sums. Sir Now tell me what do I say.

CA Surendra sir I just agree with you that Students now a days are just interested in going to thos classes who tell them CA is a Rocket science Tough study & just panik & flatter them that doing CA is something of doing on Mars or Jupiter & that the student need to do big classes or their Notes & what not. & Sir all this Big names of the Coaching Industry are literally fooling the students by just making them mug up some formulas & Making them copy paste the solutions done by the teacher on the board in the class & real teaching what we could say is hardly 10 - 20% of the concepts. Sir I can tell you that If the professor in the classes is asked any other conceptual question which is not  printed in their Class Room Material sir Belive me they cannot answer that but they take  a days time to answer that query. Sir they are just Muggedup with their Notes & nothing out of that. Sir this fact I hope you will also endorse or can try it with any Professor you know & teachhnig n some classes. Sir I really feel Pity of the present situation. Students As we have a saying in Gujrati Bhanvu Che Ganvu nathi.  & we know our Elders & Fore fathers saying Gantar nathi A bhantar su kaam nu.

To Surendra Sir & all others this is my Opinion I feel that if the students stop this crap classes        ( Excluding very very very  few ( Handful ) Professors who are in teaching as a Passion & really with an interest in Parting quality Education to students ) & students start studying on own self study Sir I am too small a person to put a bet accross but then too bet that the quality of CAs coming out will be far far far more better then Today & also the results will become still more better. Sir If I am wrong on my Opinion Pls correct me as I am too small to gv opinions but I have told you my own experience Except for Phd where I had a Mentor I was just on self study & for My Phd mentor Sir Hats of  to Him He is a real teacher to say that he teaches the way that never try to remember a formula but try & research that the Person who has designed the formula is also a person like us & what made him design the formula the way it is & not the Reverse way.

@ Dr.Sangita, you are absolutely right. 

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1. Students argue that study materials are too lengthy and if they "outsource" it to other who can save their time; then what is wrong with this "smart" idea ?

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2. Many will argue that from study materials nothing is asked; hence it is useless to study it. 

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3. During a class of approx 110 ( SIP of CS); I asked students : How many of you daily study for 6 hours? Only one raised his hand. Wonderful and rest of the students claim they are doing professional course !

( When asked further; I found that for rest of the day; actually they were doing  nothing except attending  classes).

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4. Recently in one of the Fresh CAs meet; I raised one question : If anyone is confident about any of the subject or chapter on which he can present his views right now; is invited here. Nobody came !  Whether this was an opportunity or not to establish his identity immediately. 

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It is my humble request to all to UPGRADE THEIR KNOWLEDGE AT LEAST IN THE SUBJECTS/FIELDS IN WHICH THEY HAVE INTERST.  And....also try to present your views in a very interesting manner before the public. Give one such lecture and see the confidence built within you. 

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5. I have seen many MBA students also who search for the persons who can do projects for them. The result is : More than 200 MBA Institutes have been closed in last one year ! Because their passed out students know nothing about the business complexities but have good marks. 

(One should try to know what was the scenario of MBAs before 5 years).

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Mr. VP Finance,

I dont know the eg. of ca u r giving is correct or not....

But a very big question arising in my mind that why u appointed that ca, who couldnt calculate pv with the hel of calc....?????u belong to surat and as Mr surendra are saying that there are lots of fresher ca r in search of job...???

and it can happen that one ca cant cal pv but it doesnt mean all fresher are dumb.

Thanks,

@ Shri Jain, it is said that every CA is a brand ambassador of the profession.

If one is not upto the mark; then the brand will soon lose its credit if not rectified at the earliest. 

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We must find solutions and it is alarming situation for the profession. I can say proudly that we got respect from the society due to our knowledge although our earning was also very low in initial period. 

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I raise another question :

Should we accept a CA who is unable to finalize the books of a private limited company? 

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What is your answer if  we find a fresh  CA who is  not capable to do so. 

If this is the sitatuion of a single CA; what message will go to the society ?

CA Jain

First I should tell you that I am not from Surat Gujrat & i am not MR V P I have posted my name on My profile & I am Ms ( Dr Sangita ) VP Finance

Yes CA Surendra Sir is from Gujrat

Yes Sir You are Right in asking me why did we appoint that CA who could not calculate the PV Factor with a calculator.

Sir the Thought behind appointing was which I did not Intend to Gv here as I know it would be like a Sheer Insult & a Slap on the profession of which I am also a Member, But since CA Surendra Sir has made a point Now I think I tell you with what thought in Mind we appointed him

Sir see the salary given to him its just 2 + CTC. This is the grade which is for a Experienced Bcom or an Mcom with 5 - 7 yrs exp. & If I got a CA for that then a CA is any day better than a Bcom as atleast a CA has a better accounting Knowledge then a Graduate, & he can look after the basic compliances bit more then a Normal Grad. Sir His appointment was with an Idea that he can be groomed as a Good Accounting person to gradually head our A/c Dept in future. & Sir if I am right then a CA is just named as Chartered Accountant but in reality the essence of the Degree is Far Far more then the Accountant to be said as a Pioneer in the Accounting & Finance field. Sir I hope I have replied to your question making my Point very Loud & Clear Keeping the Calibre & respect of our profession as well.

Sir also to Remind you & if you are not aware about ( CA Surendra Sir would dfntly be knowing this ) it then to bring to you information that we should not forget the case some 3 - 4 years back when Hindustan Lever had appointed a Topper (Ist ranker fresher of Final CA) & just within one year HLL sent a letter to ICAI that the Ranker they have appointed does not even know some real basic work of CA Field & they sacked him. ( The Same Person is from Dombivali Mumbai & now running a Classes ) CA Jain sir now tell me what you have to say about such people. are they not really taking the respect & integrity of the profession to Ground level.

I know many here may not like my Posts as they are just factual & out spoken but Sir I am sorry to say that I never hesitate to accept & also tell the facts, even if they pertain to anything being against me.

Originally posted by : DrSANGITA PHD MBA(usa)CACSCWA
	CA is become & taken more as a Status symbol by Students now a days to show that they are doing something different from the world, & ICAI has created a Hype for itself by rather self Proclamation. If GMCS taken in Proper sense & ICAI becoming strict on the GMCS aspect then it is very Good for the soft skills but ICAI is more interested in earning then Imparting real sense hard core training. & what i have heard that hence forth even inter students have to do 1 round of GMCS in Inter & second in Final. Looking at the papers set in this attempt I think ICAI is just loosing its credibility. If ICAI has to come back to its real meaning then the Board will need to do a BPR activity, Else I feel a day will come when there will be 25lkhs students & Avg results since last 2 Yrs @ 15 - 16%% for Final,  Keeping the same I feel there will be addition of appx 4Lkhs CAs P attempt ie 8 lkhs P/A. in 2009 - 10 there were appx 4 - 5 lkhs studs in CA in 2012 - 13 same strength is 10 Lkh +  Keeping this increase rate in line (150%)over 2008 - 09 figur 25 Lkhs is not far to attain by 2015 - 16 max. & with all due Respect to CA Surendra R  Sir I dont disagree with what you say but dont even fully agree as now a days CA has started loosing its inherent value coz of the Menace of Dummy articles & the type of Papers & most Imp the Money making Tactics of the Pvt coaching classes by unnecessar projecting that to pass CA is too Tough. Sir Honestly I have started feeling Pity for CA course. Its high time ICAI Look into it

Hi

I agree with Surendra Kumar Sir about the coaching class menace and lack of focus on part of the students.Also that the CA course needs revamping to keep up with the times.

but Ms sangeeta Ma'm you are criticizing ALL of us left and right, and you dont know the difference between lose and loose, I wonder how you managed that MBA from US of A.( and other stuff you claim: there is no way we can verify tall claims in CCI)

Credibility doesnt become loose, you lose credibility.

 

@ Dr. Sangita, I really appreciate your politeness. This may show others how to get directions from mentors (if they wish).

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Whatever you have narrated about the first ranker is true and the same has been reaffirmed  by a sitting council member from Mumbai while his visit to Surat during ensuring elections. 

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This RCM had left job after serving as President of one of the group company after taking 1.2 cr. package p.a.

( He left job because he could create more opportunities and could live his life according to his wish than to bear pressure of performance from the management ).

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Now one can imagine what is the REAL WORTH OF THE CA PROFESSION and what is the VISION OF THE MOST OF THE STUDENTS

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( How many could dare to leave a job of Rs.1.2 Cr. p.a.)

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The most of  candidates have joined CA course because they  are  job seekers and not in a position to find their own ways best suitable to them.

Whatever they want may not be available from day one....but a step towards that surely may lead to them to that goal. 

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The dilemma is : Most of the qualified CAs don't know what to do to increase revenues from their profession in present scenario.  Hurldes are everywhere in every field of the life. So everyone should first of all decide for the life what  they want to be.

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This question :WHAT THEY WANT TO BE may further be astonishing for many of them. Because they wanted to be chartered accoutants and at present they have those papers in their hands certifying that these guys have achieved what they wanted !

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I hope now the picture is clear before the members that passing CA is not the end of the career.

CAREER JUST BEGINS AFTER QUALIFYING CA EXAMS !

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So after qualifying the exams; reexamine yourself what best you can do at present and engage yourself in that  (don't unnecessarily try what is the best at present).

Thenafter to find better position in the profession; regularly update your knowledge in the fields where you can develop your interests. 

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See the scenario to decide where it would lead after 5 years. Of course; corrections are to be made immediately when signals are there of drastic change. ( Example : Recent amendments in Service Tax ).

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Another Example : What happened in 2005 when reliance launched its MOBILE. People made queues to pay Rs.30,000/- for a mobile and now everyone knows what is the cost of getting the same.

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CA PROFESSION REQUIRES MEMBERS TO UPDATE IMMEDIATELY THEMSELVES WHENEVER A NEW AREA OF PROFESSION EMERGES.

BUT UNFORTUNATELY THEY DON'T HAVE DEVELOPED THEIR HABITS TO STUDY IN  INTERESTING AND CONSTRUCTIVE WAY. 

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So actual problems do not lie in CA profession; it is the attitude of the members (including officer bearers) due to which problems have arised.

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i do agree with you sir. there should be some fundemental restructurring in our course for the benefit of all. and we need to change ourselve to the changing scenario. one important thing is to change this outdated articleship program. many times i have felt like this whole article thing is a recruitment process for CA firms. when i compare myself [fom trivandrum] with an article in Chennai or any other metro i feel like what am i doing as an article. there is no uniformity in the kind of training received by the students.  and many times i have seen relatives of CA enjoying dummies. our training program has to go some modernisations. like online attendance. including the work being done by the article. which has to be monitored by respective ICAI centers. inspite of teh 15 day GMCS continous training at ICAI centers on a once in a week basis to improve the soft skills of CA students like seminars on ammendments, PPT by students, group discussions etc to be added.

 

the institute should also try modern techiniques like distributing TABS to student instead of text books which can be used by them at classes for studies and they will get automatic updates in the tabs regularly. 

 

and coming to the exams. they are faults. but in my opinion it can be slolved only by increasing the number of valuators and time given to them. and there should be a valuation system for the valuators. 

 

at one point i disagree with you, and that is at coaching centers. why are you against it? isint it good for students to meet teaches and interact with them? and exam is to  be taken in the spirt of exam only. there you wil have to use techniques and ideas to clear it. and its common for all exams not just for CA's. i dont think that coaching centers are a reson for the present job crisis. and i dont even think that there is a job crisis. all my frinds who have cleared CA have got job in 4 months. that too in trivandrum in good salary going more than 40k per month. 

 

in you previous post i saw that a person asked to hire a CA for less than 12k per month and a driver for 15k or more. can u give the details of that person?? Sir kindly dont spread fake news... its just an exagerrated story.. with all due respect sir please dont devalue urself 

Approach should be practical printed than theoretical mugging up. International standards of professionalism be followed. Strict policies and rules be made and followed. Otherwise the curicullum is good. Entry into ca as profession should be made tougher. Read my thread "easy entry difficult exit".

Ca are in plenty in the market,any working at minimum salary expected and many unemployed for many years, many have started their own practice and are sitting idle doing trade in share mkt. This is the value of a ca in India.when I entered in this field ppl used to value a ca. But due to poorly planned policies, ca has lost already its charm,respect. Ca are mostly accountants now. That taboo of being a graduate is slowly being taken over by being a ca. What's going on. Something is seriously going wrong.