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Do u in favour a dummy articleship is only to relatives

CA CS VINAYAK PATIL (CHARTERED ACCOUNTANT) (921 Points)

04 March 2009

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21 Replies

Gourav Goyal (Industrial Trainee) (230 Points)
Replied 04 March 2009

what u want to ask?

koolleo87 (1268 Points)
Replied 04 March 2009

Well ya.... If youa re doing dummy articles to concentrate on studies because Ca's have been known to interfere in exam leaves n al....Its well and good... Go for it instead of compromising on studies like us...

Krunal Raichura (Financial Advisory) (2134 Points)
Replied 04 March 2009

Never do dummy articleship.

People in big 4 have got very less leave,with no time to attend class also but still have managed to get ranks. We have many rankers from big 4. I would like to inform this to all people who have a belief that people in big 4 dont do well in studies and who have been advising everyone to do dummy articleship or in small firm.

Secondly, the approach of going to tutions, coming back home and doing the homework and scoring a rank needs to be changed. Im aware of many rankers in top 10 who didnt manage to get articleship in the firm they wanted without a reference. Imagine, this rank which has not even helped them get articleship, what miracles is it going to do? Rank is a good achievement indeed, very few people get it. But what has been the result of this if these people didn't manage to get in the firm they want whereas we had many non-rankers, 23nd and 3rd attempt people also who got into big 4 and other mid size firms.

Conclusion is that rank and good acamdeics is great, but other things are equally important. Being good at academics and getting ranks is not the end of life. Practical Knowledge, interpersonal skills, leadership and management qualities, good contacts etc are equally important. Without all that, the rank is a good toy without a key to play it. Such a toy will look good in a showcase for people to see and clap but in real life it wont give any good results.

I would urge all of you to think on the above.

Wishing you all good luck,

koolleo87 (1268 Points)
Replied 04 March 2009

Well, NOT EVERYONE can manage to pass without getting enough days to study.. As for the learning experience..blahblahblah.... Come on dude, you have your whole life to work n learn... But you have only those few crucial years to study and excel in academics...Academics is and always will be important... Just look at the vacancies ads for CA's in these times of recession and you ll see what I mean... WANTED CA 1ST ATTEMPT..RANK HOLDERS WILL BE GIVEN PREFERENCE... I know many people who took articleship so seriously that they didnt make it in the first attempt although they had the potential to... people who took articelship so seriously that they couldnt clear CA Final for years together...Now they know everything but dont have a degree.... As for getting in the big 4, come on man...All you have to do is forego articleship over there in return for a CA before your name... I am not telling you to do complete dummy....But before you become a CA, atleast work for about 18 ..That ll be more then enough...

Krunal Raichura (Financial Advisory) (2134 Points)
Replied 04 March 2009

I have stressed the necessity of all areas by using the word equally important.

I havent given any high weightage to things I have mentioned. However, if you feel its blahblahblah and can be done anytime, wishing you good luck dude, you can go ahead with that way if you feel so.

The best of success stories in this world have made me realise that academics hardly have any importance in the long run.

There is no reason i can see to forego big 4 articleship cos I am aware of hundreds of people who have done articleship in big 4, they have even become CAs in first attempt with ranks and are holding the best jobs today. The question of forgoing anything doesnt come.

These tiny ads which you are talking about are looked by such people who do dummy articleship and who are having toys without keys as mentioned above.

People in big 4 are absorbed there istself (irrespective of academics) if they are good at work so they wont be aware of these tiny newspaper ads you are talking about.

koolleo87 (1268 Points)
Replied 04 March 2009

First of all, I didnt mean any offence... Well, academics are important coz you have to become a CA first... And I was talking of a student who cannot make do with a few months of leave for exams...As you know, NOT everyone is blessed with a HIGH IQ... And I am aware of thousands of people who couldnt become CA's coz they couldnt concentrate on studies...Go to any small firm..And you ll find an assistant who didnt clear CA Final but knows everything about work... It is worth mentioning here that IF YOU HAVE A HIGH IQ AND MEMORY, AND CAN MANAGE TO STUDY FOR CA FINAL EXAMS IN ONE MONTH...APPLY FOR BIG 4....I know many people who got leave for November 2010 CA Final exam on 1st October.... I am suggesting the '' GIVE ARTICLESHIP SECOND PREFERENCE '' route for us mortals who have to make do with Normal IQ's but still want to become CA's....

KoolCapricorn (Student) (600 Points)
Replied 04 March 2009

kool leo is right. my vote is with you.

koolleo87 (1268 Points)
Replied 05 March 2009

Krunal Raichura (Financial Advisory) (2134 Points)
Replied 12 March 2009

Its strange to see that u feel that only people who can study for final in one month should go to big 4.

Big 4 gives leave as per ICAI rules.....

I kindly request you to find out the profile of the pcc and final rankers. The rank 1 of final exams held in nov 08 is from a big 4. I know hundreds of students from big 4 across India who are rank holders, and quite a few of them are in top 10.

If you know people who got only one month leave for final...be it from any firm....I think its a serious issuse and it should be brought to the notice of ICAI.

Myself and all my colleagues who work in big 4 got leave as per ICAI rules. I havent come across any instances where big 4 students didn't get leave as per ICAI rules.

People who have given second preference to articleship have experienced the results of the same. People out here in big 4 have atleast managed to get jobs easily even in such recession times. In the last few days, I have come across rankers joining big 4 and industry for unbelieveably low packages...Wait for some more news...I am sure you will get to know how well CA's are doing.

Yogesh Malhotra (C.A.-PCC & B.Com(P)-1st year) (384 Points)
Replied 12 March 2009

its not about big4 or small firms.......... we have various examples where students 4m big4 are getting ranks .....and even those who are doing dummy don't pass...... but i would suggest that do not go for dummy........because once u r a qualified C.A. , your practical experience matters a lot......

Krunal Raichura (Financial Advisory) (2134 Points)
Replied 12 March 2009

Originally posted by :Yogesh Malhotra
"	its not about big4 or small firms.......... we have various examples where students 4m big4 are getting ranks .....and even those who are doing dummy don't pass...... but i would suggest that do not go for dummy........because once u r a qualified C.A. , your practical experience matters a lot......	"

I agree to Yogesh. My main concern is that people are getting misguided as in many forums I have seen that it is advised not to join big 4 because there is no time to study, attend class and that people from big 4 dont do well in exams. The reality contradicts all these opinions against big 4. We have had so many rankers from big 4 including rank 1 of ca final also.

I would like to tell everyone that don't be misguided by people who advise you not to join big 4 citing such baseless reasons which completely contradict the facts.

I agree that the credentials required for success in life are very different from those required in exams. Success of life has very less to do with exams, ranks in exams, big 4 or small firms, knowledge etc.

Good opinion Yogesh. It is a matured answer.

Yogesh Malhotra (C.A.-PCC & B.Com(P)-1st year) (384 Points)
Replied 13 March 2009

Dear Krunal....

Let everyone say what they wanna say......

Time is the biggest teacher and examiner...

The true value of articleship and experience will get to be understood to all those , when on the day of their interview at the apponitee"s office these questions would be asked.....

-4m where have u done ur articleship?

-tell me about audit experience...?

-tell me the firms and companies u have audited....?

-what do u know about risk based audits, stat. sudits....internal, taxation, analysis..etc....

-raeas u have audited...?

-observations and recommendations u quoted on a particular audit on a particular audit area..?

and many more...?

Sumit Jain (CA) (4760 Points)
Replied 21 March 2009

i m totally against dummy articleship training

CA is a course in which

theoritical as well as practical knoledge is very impotant

only studing income tax in books will not make a person able to file an income tax return

or filling an appeal ( for eg)

for this u have to get some practical knowledge

and institute ne kuch soch samajh kar hi aise rules banaye hai

so we must follow it

(Guest)

At this current scenario, it is very very dangerous to do articleship in Big4 or in unknown firms. Because if you do articleship in firms where partner is not close to you, you might end up becoming his bonded labour. As far as exposure is concerned, you do articleship in a firm where the partner is your relative or close associate to you and get exposure, LIMITED TO THE EXTENT Relevant for Exams. Further exposure can be gained post qualification.