Dear Shrikant, 

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I really appreciate your attitude because sometimes I give "KADVE PRAVACHAN" alike Jain Muni Tarunsagar.

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Before you choose to go for Taxation; first of all prepare at least 5 articles in Taxation and publish it here at caclub.  

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Your performance will be decided by the public; not by you ! Although it is also true that the public might not be so expert in Taxation !  

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If it appreciate; it means you can convey your knowledge of taxation to the TAX AUTHORITIES also in future. 

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For this you should regularly read Income-Tax Reporter, Taxmann's Publications and regularly update your knowledge from various sites like caclub, Taxguru, Vakil No.1 etc.etc.

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You should also refer commentary  of Chaturvedi & Pithisaria. ( Running into various volumes of not less than 2500 pages per volume - incorporating various case laws ). 

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Your show know about NRI Taxation, Transfer Pricing, Tax Planning and Tax Administration. 

.

Firstly, you should focus on Return Filing, Payment of Taxes and TDS Procedures. 

.

TDS itself is very tedious and if you are master in TDS; a lot of work is awaiting you.

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If you can develop your interests in TAXATION OF CHARITABLE TRUSTS; a simple but enough career is there. 

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BUT STILL I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR CONTENTION THAT YOU HAVE INTEREST IN TAXATION. The topic raised by me is BEGIN WITH YOUR STRENGTH.......Taxation is not your strength right now. It is a matter of interest only. Many students have interest in music but they have never performed anything in music. 

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Neither you know more about it. Whereas a  little champ in singing knows very well that one day she will be singing like Lata Mangeshkar.

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So, at present; how to believe that you will do excellent in the field of TAXATION ? You have to make a lot of exercise and whatever you have understood in Auditing so far; will go in vain. Do you like it to happen so ?

.

Yesterday; one lady candidate came to me and asked me to guide about CWA. I listened her carefully for 10 minutes and she was very confident about the course - without knowing anything about it ! She wanted to do it because it gives a good career. Whatever she wanted; was vanished in one question which I put before her :

.

I asked her : Do you know where will be your practical training ? I further added : You have to go to the remote areas where factories are situated ! Are you ready to go there ? ( She shocked to know this as she was married and in Surat only 2-3 CWA members are practising and one of them is 76 years old).

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Today one student came to know about CS after filling the form just 2 days before !

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Do you think they will do excellent in their field ?

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Tell honestly; do you known some renowned advocates/CAs  in TAXATION ?.

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If not; then how you will make your aim ( to be excellent ) that I want to be ...............( Like Sachin in Cricket ) in TAXATION ?

Dear Surendra Sir,

Never read Income-Tax Reporter, Taxmann's Publications  and commentary  of Chaturvedi & Pithisaria but I do visit caclub, Taxguru, Vakil No.1.

Theoritically i have read about NRI Taxation, Transfer Pricing, Tax Planning and Tax Administration, Return Filing, Payment of Taxes and TDS Procedures - thanks to CA final syllabus. 

1) My main query to you right now is - why do you think that whatever i did in articles - that only determines my interest? articleship is all about what work i get from my seniors in the CA firm i join.Unfortunately, i got to do only statuatory audit work.

2) Dont you think that at this stage, when i know that i would get bored of just doin postmortem job or just reporting to shareholders as to the performance of the compnay - I should change my line now?

The years i spent doing articleship was just part of our CA curicullum. After one appears for CA final, one is atleast on paper confident bout where does he want to go.

3) Does not life begin afresh after one clears CA final (after completing articles)?

There are people who after doing articleship in audits or taxation dept enter industry to do job say in treasury or in forex management or in finance department of banks or manufacturing company. These jobs have nothing to do with what you did in articleship (unless and untill you prfer to do accounting job or filing returns).Even in their case , they inshort have not utilised what they did in articleship.

So iam of the opinion that what i did in artciles was definitely useful but iam not happy to make it my career in long term.I would also not call that period  as a waste as a CA must have done audits in his life for sure.(toh hi basics pata hoga varna jo tax se shuru direct karta hai usko base nahi ata hoga). Rather than moving from Tax to auidt , i feel after doing audit moving in Tax is more fruitful experience.

4) Above discussion was only pertaining the fact that Iam ineterested in tax and iam ready to put the necessary efforts after i clear my CA exam.

But to make a career in taxation - tell me - where should i join now - mid size CA firm?

Should i tell them please give me exposure first in Return Filing, Payment of Taxes and TDS Procedures. Then after working there ..i should ask them to give me exposure in Appeals, hearings, opinions, drafting letters.

 5) After i clear my CA exams, i also got to think money wise, thats the reason iam asking you ,  that how much should i be earning minimmum mid size CA firm down 2 years after i clear CA firm and join a mid size CA firm.

I know that for first year (afetr i clear)i should compromise on my earnings, to gain expereince, But still how much should i be paid.

I want to join such CA firm where i get what i want.( as mentioned above) and not a firm where my year gets wasted...you only suggest big4 or mid size as iam saying or small size for 2 years then go for mid size. Suggest

(more questions in next message after reading your response)

Please read again my sharing to answer those particular areas on which you have not menttioned anything in your above reply which I have asked; especially the last part of my post. 

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The very basic issue has remained unaswered by you. 

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If I show a better option which can be opted easily; are you ready to adopt it because it will fetch more money very soon  than Taxation ?

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( Answer it honestly and don't try to take your stand).

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I am putting the above questions seriously to know your real strength  in Taxation.

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There is a basic difference between Strength and Interest. 

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Strength is inherent whereas interest can be developed later on after knowing the importance of a particular area.  

Everyone has a TREASURE in himself; the required thing is to SEARCH it :

Thanks very much for mentioning such a valuable point.

Dear Shrikant, 

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In our days; we liked the batting of Shrikant who was always waiting for a next ball to hit a boundary. 

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( Hope you know about Shrikant).

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To create a real interest in the subject for the life long; first of all we should know renowned names in the field in which we wish to engage.  

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Being a CA Student; right now you can feel proud that a South Indian is  the President of our Institute AND he is a prolific speaker. He has come to this stage from a very small branch. Try to know to which branch (city) he belongs; if you don't know right now.  

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Do you know the name of CA Padamchand Khincha, practising CA in Bangalore ? If not; try to know more about him and ask people how many Income-Tax Files he has ?

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Have your heard about NANI PALKHIWALA ? 

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On every budget;  approx one lac people used to listen his BUDGET SPEECH  in Mumbai.

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When some section was introduced which he told it is AN IDIOT SECTION; then lawmakers were also got irritated. Try to know which was that section ? 

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( All this you can know from commentary ). 

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In 1985 or so; I heard that his consultancy charges for 10 minutes was Rs.10,000/-. For "such small clients" he used to give his advice in between the time of taking off from his car and reaching to the plane. 

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A single Search Case fee is Rs.10 lacs (minimum).

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I have quoted the name of CA Vimal Punamiya, Mumbai in my article ONE SHOT SUCCESS IN CA; published at caclubindia. 

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Heavy consultancy fee is paid every year by the corporate clients for TAX PLANNING.

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The shortest way of making career in Taxation is to learn each and every section of Income-Tax by heart.

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How can I  forget Dr. Girish Ahuja here ?

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He said : Read an Income-Tax Section three times and you will find different meanings all the three times.  I  couldn't believe.  To test his words;  I  analyzed some of the sections and found that  he is correct. 

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One more such writer is from South in Direct Taxation. Can you name him ? Nobody will tell you all the things. You have to search it out. It is said in our "GRANTHS" that a pupil can search for 12 years to find a most suitable Guru for him. 

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A person was engaged in Acting since last 20 years but could be recognized by public only when he appeared as  Gabbar Singh in Sholay. Hope you know his name.

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TO MAKE A BRIGHT CAREER IN TAXATION; READ AS MANY  BOOKS AS ARE AVAILABLE IN THE MARKET.

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ANALYZE THEM AT YOUR OWN AND THEN TRY TO COMMENT CRITICALLY ON THEM. ULTIMATELY YOU HAVE TO APPEAR BEFORE THE TAX AUTHORITIES.  IF YOU CAN  COMMENT CRITICALLY; THEN  A BRIGHT CAREER IS ASSURED.  

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FOR EXAMPLE; T.N. MANOHARAN'S BOOK ON DIRECT TAXATION IS VOLUMINIOUS; BUT STILL IT DOES NOT COVER THE WHOLE SYLLABUS AS IS REQUIRED FOR CA FINAL.

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INITIALLY; READ A SECTION; THEN TRY TO UNDERSTAND IT.

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I GIVE HERE ONE HOMEWORK TO YOU.  OTHER STUDENTS CAN ALSO START IT FOR THE SAKE OF MAKING BRIGHT CAREER IN TAXATION.  

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FIRST OF ALL READ - CHAPTER RELATING TO AGRICULTURAL INCOME WITH ALL THE CASE LAWS AVAILABLE TO YOU.

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THEN WRITE HERE WHAT YOU KNOW NOW AND WHAT YOU KNOW AFTER READING THAT. 

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I AM SURE; IT WILL OPEN YOUR INSIGHT ABOUT THE TAXATION.  

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You have still not given answers to some of my questions. 

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Please read the contents of my post carefully and then you will find what I want to say. 

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Today itself; I asked to one CA; do you know what is your strength ?

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He told : Hardly some persons know their own strength; those who know; are at the top of their career. 

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YOU SHOULD DO THE SWOT ANALYSIS OF YOUR OWN. 

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Strength & Weaknesses : of Self

Opportunities & Threats : prevailing Outside

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If you apply your strength towards opportunities immediately; then you can easily build your career in the shortest possible time. 

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If you wish to overcome your weaknesses first; it might be possible by the time you overcome your weaknesses; opportunities  may lost.

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In Surat, in 1996, one CA started his career as Accounting Software Engineer. Within one year he sold 1000 copies of his software by charging a fee of Rs.15,000/- each. Caclulate what he had earned. One who began his career in the same line in 2007; has closed his venture and now practising as an Indirect Tax Consultant.

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Hope you got my point now. 

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BEST OF LUCK. 

Thoroughly enjoyed reading the post...

Better late than never....

VERY EXCELLENT SIR ,

I would like to add something 

1. When students pass 12th class or I say even before passing 12th ,there is lot of excitement in their mind 

about College ,

2.Attraction for college life starts from very early age  through T.V & Movies .

3.Till School life Students have to follow different kinds of rules of school which they dont like to follow 

like School Uniform ,Attending Class , Homework ,Tuitions ,,,,,,,,etc

4.Thererfore Students are waiting for the day when they will go to college with their Bike ,expensive clothings ,Mobile ,and Girlfriend ,,,,

And from day one of college to last day of college they are trying to copy all what they have seen in T.V and movies.

I through this plateform would like to say that only students are not responsible for wasting 3 years of golden life , 

This happens because Most of the parents says that " We have given full freedom to our children to choose their career ,they can do what they want ".

Here there is a very important role of Parents & Teachers to play ,they should discuss what career option they wil select after college.

It is not like that College Education is totally wastage ,rather any type of education is fruitful provided

Students select them on the basis of SWOT Analysis 

S=strength 

w=weakness

o=opportunity

T=threat

Finally I request All the parents ,Teacher to Analyse the student on the basis of SWOT  and guide them in selecting a best career option and saving Golden Years of Life ,

Thank You

surendraji, if you could give me a direct answer to the following questions it would be great, as iam looking for suggestions from experienced people like you for the below questions. i had given answers to your earlier post directed at me.(answers are in green

Originally posted by : Shrikant Subramanian
	Originally posted by : CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA Dear Shrikant,  . I really appreciate your attitude because sometimes I give "KADVE PRAVACHAN" alike Jain Muni Tarunsagar. . Before you choose to go for Taxation; first of all prepare at least 5 articles in Taxation and publish it here at caclub.   Agreed. I will try to put up such articles, though iam not sure about which topic should i write. As said earlier iam not claimimg that taxation is my strength right now. Iam only saying as i have interest in it, taxation would subsequently in say after 2 years would become my strenth thanks to the personal experiences. . Your performance will be decided by the public; not by you ! Although it is also true that the public might not be so expert in Taxation !   . If it appreciate; it means you can convey your knowledge of taxation to the TAX AUTHORITIES also in future.  . For this you should regularly read Income-Tax Reporter, Taxmann's Publications and regularly update your knowledge from various sites like caclub, Taxguru, Vakil No.1 etc.etc.  Income-Tax Reporter, Taxmann's Publications- I have never read them but the sites mentioned above is regularly visited by me.       . You should also refer commentary  of Chaturvedi & Pithisaria. ( Running into various volumes of not less than 2500 pages per volume - incorporating various case laws ).  . Your show know about NRI Taxation, Transfer Pricing, Tax Planning and Tax Administration.  . Firstly, you should focus on Return Filing, Payment of Taxes and TDS Procedures.  Never read Income-Tax Reporter, Taxmann's Publications  and commentary  ofChaturvedi & Pithisaria  . TDS itself is very tedious and if you are master in TDS; a lot of work is awaiting you. . If you can develop your interests in TAXATION OF CHARITABLE TRUSTS; a simple but enough career is there.  Theoritically i have read about NRI Taxation, Transfer Pricing, Tax Planning and Tax Administration, Return Filing, Payment of Taxes and TDS Procedures - thanks to CA final syllabus.  . BUT STILL I DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR CONTENTION THAT YOU HAVE INTEREST IN TAXATION. The topic raised by me is BEGIN WITH YOUR STRENGTH.......Taxation is not your strength right now. It is a matter of interest only. Many students have interest in music but they have never performed anything in music.  Iam a fresher and i have developed interest in taxation, I believe i can begin afresh in taxation with dedicated efforts. Its not my strenth right now. But am I not going to get good work experience now ( hopefully i get a firm where my potential is tapped) . Neither you know more about it. Whereas a  little champ in singing knows very well that one day she will be singing like Lata Mangeshkar. . So, at present; how to believe that you will do excellent in the field of TAXATION ? You have to make a lot of exercise and whatever you have understood in Auditing so far; will go in vain. Do you like it to happen so ? iam of the opinion that what i did in artciles was definitely useful.  I dont consider what i did in articles as completely waste. I feel atleast i have done statuatory audit work in my life.But career is to be decided in such a manner that i would be happy doing it for the next 25 years.I should feel happy to go to workplace on Monday mornings and not wait to see the clock tick away.Long term would not like to be in audit.  . Yesterday; one lady candidate came to me and asked me to guide about CWA. I listened her carefully for 10 minutes and she was very confident about the course - without knowing anything about it ! She wanted to do it because it gives a good career. Whatever she wanted; was vanished in one question which I put before her   But i wouild like to know about what all iam expected to know about taxation at this stage? : . I asked her : Do you know where will be your practical training ? I further added : You have to go to the remote areas where factories are situated ! Are you ready to go there ? ( She shocked to know this as she was married and in Surat only 2-3 CWA members are practising and one of them is 76 years old). I would be glad to know what all are the oppurtunities for a CA after 2 years of experience in  taxation related work as a fresher.In my case i have the basic idea of whats expected of a CA in this field. Its filing of retruns, attending hearings, preparing draft letters, giving opinions, handling scrutiny and liasioning with officers. At this point i may not have the ability to argue with a senior guy from IT dept or a lawyer.  . Today one student came to know about CS after filling the form just 2 days before ! . Do you think they will do excellent in their field ? No they cannot do excellent in their field for next 3 years( but they can do well afterwards provided that they get good exposure and try to learn as much as possible in next 3 years) . Tell honestly; do you known some renowned advocates/CAs  in TAXATION ?. No i dont know any renowed ones. But i know some CA's who are either my seniors form college who are practicing CA's in taxation field. There are some Senior CA's (with 20 years and above exp) whom i know just by name / some even by face, thanks to my collegues/ freinds.But personally i know very few of such CAs.  . If not; then how you will make your aim ( to be excellent ) that I want to be ...............( Like Sachin in Cricket ) in TAXATION ? I believe i can get knowledge only by getting into some CA firm , where i get to learn all the things whcih Iam interested in, where iam treated well , where my potential is tapped in right direction and to the fullest. If i get the needed exposure i can fulfill my aim. But i repeat, right now iam confused because although i have interest in taxation, i dont know how to get the needed exposure such that i also get to earn money and be master of the subject taxation such that it becomes my strength. What additional qualification should i study for?

best thread ever .....

surendra sir,

i would like to hear your comments and answers in specific to the below post. Then only i can ask you about few other things after knowing your response/answers to the points and questions  laid down below..

Originally posted by : Shrikant Subramanian
	Dear Surendra Sir, Never read Income-Tax Reporter, Taxmann's Publications  and commentary  of Chaturvedi & Pithisaria but I do visit caclub, Taxguru, Vakil No.1.   Theoritically i have read about NRI Taxation, Transfer Pricing, Tax Planning and Tax Administration, Return Filing, Payment of Taxes and TDS Procedures - thanks to CA final syllabus.  1) My main query to you right now is - why do you think that whatever i did in articles - that only determines my interest? articleship is all about what work i get from my seniors in the CA firm i join.Unfortunately, i got to do only statuatory audit work. 2) Dont you think that at this stage, when i know that i would get bored of just doin postmortem job or just reporting to shareholders as to the performance of the compnay - I should change my line now? The years i spent doing articleship was just part of our CA curicullum. After one appears for CA final, one is atleast on paper confident bout where does he want to go. 3) Does not life begin afresh after one clears CA final (after completing articles)? There are people who after doing articleship in audits or taxation dept enter industry to do job say in treasury or in forex management or in finance department of banks or manufacturing company. These jobs have nothing to do with what you did in articleship (unless and untill you prfer to do accounting job or filing returns).Even in their case , they inshort have not utilised what they did in articleship. So iam of the opinion that what i did in artciles was definitely useful but iam not happy to make it my career in long term.I would also not call that period  as a waste as a CA must have done audits in his life for sure.(toh hi basics pata hoga varna jo tax se shuru direct karta hai usko base nahi ata hoga). Rather than moving from Tax to auidt , i feel after doing audit moving in Tax is more fruitful experience. 4) Above discussion was only pertaining the fact that Iam ineterested in tax and iam ready to put the necessary efforts after i clear my CA exam. But to make a career in taxation - tell me - where should i join now - mid size CA firm? Should i tell them please give me exposure first in Return Filing, Payment of Taxes and TDS Procedures. Then after working there ..i should ask them to give me exposure in Appeals, hearings, opinions, drafting letters.  5) After i clear my CA exams, i also got to think money wise, thats the reason iam asking you ,  that how much should i be earning minimmum mid size CA firm down 2 years after i clear CA firm and join a mid size CA firm. I know that for first year (afetr i clear)i should compromise on my earnings, to gain expereince, But still how much should i be paid.   I want to join such CA firm where i get what i want.( as mentioned above) and not a firm where my year gets wasted...you only suggest big4 or mid size as iam saying or small size for 2 years then go for mid size. Suggest (more questions in next message after reading your response)

Surendraji, did you really test some caclub followers?

I think you were really of the opinion on that day that mannaa dey died may after seeing some media report saying Dey(mid day reporter died). So you must have posted that.

Anyways if it was just a test its alright, but i feel you should not post such comments even for fun/ with intention to test anyone as Manna Dey is in his 90's and is respected singer and has sung many nice songs. So such statement should have never been made.

Hope you dont mistake me thinking how dare such an  article assistant  say this to practicing CA.(much senior )...Manna dey is very much alive and much more senior and kicking so passing such statement may make blind followers of your posts to beleive it to be true. Henceforth do not test in this manner or put up unverfied statements.

Originally posted by : CA SURENDRA KUMAR RAKHECHA
	Originally posted by : Narayanan sir r u sure manna dey has died? i cannot belive that he has died..just 5 months before he performed in a concert  in Mumbai and show was successful. can you provide some link? in google, its specified that manna dey is very much alive. You are right; he is alive.  What I wrote above; just to check  whether students refer the newspapers or not.  If such legend expires; then definitely we will find a news about him. Have anyone noticed in recent past ? Recently we have noticed the death of painter. What was his name; I leave it to the readers. I think very few of us have met him and neither we have got a chance to see his real paintings. . Whereas this legend Manna Dey is still performing and many of us have seen him performing ! . At least we enjoy his singing if we have not enjoyed his live performance. To my knowledge he is the only singer who performed as  a classical singer  which were perfomed  in comedy scenes many times. . The example is : Ek Chatur Naar Karke Singaar....The most of such scenes have been performed by  Mahmood in the past.   .. I give the reference of one of the post how students wish to behave in professional exams and then they blame the "behaviour" of the Institutes is not "uptomark."  After reading the following; readers have to decide what is the correct position.  Although it was written for a query  raised by a CA student; still it is equally good for CS and CWA students. . Originally posted by : .......... .  Hi, Cost & FM paper of this paper contained more than 70 marks from FM. However, institute clearly divides the marks as 50:50 between Cost & FM. Cannot this matter be taken to institute.  . My views :  The ideology of the Institute is; never believe on anyone till you verify yourself.  . While conducing audit of a client's accounts; if the client says it is all OK; no need to check, you may just sign your audit report. Can you believe on his words ? . I ask a very basic question :  . For what purpose the Institute has included particular topics ? Do you find somewhere the Institute has written : You can easily skip over some of the syllabus. The answer is No. Hence the option is not available to you to skip over some part of the syllabus.  . The reason is when you would be a qualified CA, then it is expected from you that you know at least something about the matter which was covered in your syllabus. I warn here; that something is not sufficient  to be a successful professional.   . For example; while studying Accountancy; you left the chapter Hire Purchase. By scoring 55 or so; you passed CA Final (anyhow - say by Good Luck).  . Now you wish to start your own practice.  . The very first client which you meet; is a person who provide finance to the cars.  . Can you say to him : Since I don't know what is the accounting system of Hire Purchase; hence I am not able to handle your case. . And if you take his case; definitely you have to study HIRE PURCHASE ACCOUNTING now !   . So it is better option  before you to study it now. Otherwise the option is to leave the client.  . Decide now : Which option is better ?  . To leave Hire Purchase Accountancy or the Client ! . Of course, you can't leave anyone.  . If you think; you are not interested to be a practising CA because you want to serve some reputed companies.  . Suppose; after qualification you get one offer from BAJAJ AUTO FINANCE.  . I repeat the same question which I raised earlier.  . Now, tell me what is your answer ?

Dear Narayan, 

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Right now your scorecard (  which is 40 ) shows how active your are at caclub till now. 

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However; whatever you have raised, I appreciate.

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I always like critical comments. If we take them positively; it increases our attention about the topic.This is alike a situation where a typical question is raised before a new professor by a student. Students should also be ready to face critical questions put before them by a professor. Unfortunately rarely it happens. 

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In CA, we have been taught that an Auditor should check  himself  to find the truth behind any transactions.  Till old days; we were required to check only accuracy of the accounting figures.  Later on one more word came  : AUTHENTIC. ( Can you say why I am talking about "authentic" here ? ) 

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Now financial reporting requires whether the funds of the shareholders have been prudently applied for the business for which these were raised by the Management. ( Only accuracy of accounting does not serve the purpose). 

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After my posting; only one student raised his hand for my post about Manna Dey.  Thenafter I have replied also. There were no such news in the papers or TV. 

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I think you have read the whole post and found only the content where you could critically comment. This is your strength and that is why you have begin with. 

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I ask you : Have you read the questions which I have put before Shrikant ?  

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Please read carefully; I really ask students where they stand.

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I ask myself many times; where I stand - it is a matter of SWOT analysis ( as explained by CA Durgesh Mishra ) which should be carried out every quarter. Also try to ask CA Durgesh where was he standing and where he stands now ? I have specially invited him to comment on the issue because his strength is MATHS and not the TAX or AUDITS.

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( There is a hidden message which I want to share again with the students ). 

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During our practice; many times new notifications come at regular intervals. Whenever some fellow CAs says - this is the new notification dated so and so and numbered so and so. We don't believe until we check it by ourself.  

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In my post : I have directly and indirectly raised many questions. Now I ask you  - which important issue/questions I have raised before the students. 

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1.     An average student will explain in 5-6 LINES as he misbelieves that writing more fetches more marks.   

2.     An intelligent student will explain in SINGLE BUT POWERFUL LINE. 

3.     A genius will tell it in THREE or FOUR WORDS.

I have given a message in three words to the students.

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( When critically asked; students never even try to reply. They prefer to keep mum and continue to ask .........). 

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