Proposed removal of isca from ca final in new scheme !!

Guddi (employee) (769 Points)
Replied 16 February 2015

Whatever may be the logics of ICAI, it should act according to the present day demands of the market. What is the use of removing a theory subject when no proper training is given in practicals. Theory and practicals should go hand in hand and proper care should be taken to implement both the theory and practicals for the benefit of students.

(Guest)

I got 27 in ISCA in Nov 2014. I got 31 in ISCA in May 2014. I got 28 in ISCA in Nov 2013. ISCA is standing between my CA membership.

But,

Again I will say "DELUSIONAL ARE THOSE WHO UNDERMINE THE IMPORTANCE OF ISCA/IT.EVERYTHING IS ON CLOUD THESE DAYS.FUTURE IS CASHLESS ECONOMY,ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.CURRENCIES LIKE BITCOINS ARE HOT ISSUES.INFORMATION SYSTEM IS THE ESSENCE OF THIS NEW WORLD ORDER. BIGGEST BLUNDER EVER WILL BE THE DELETION OF ISCA, IT."

ISCA and IT are not the core subjects in all the CA, CPA, CMA courses abroad. But they have a very high computer literacy rate. Their computer literacy rate is about 85-90%. This is the reason they have no IT, ISCA paper.

But India is a developing country. Our Computer literacy rate is very poor. Blindly copying the curriculum of foreign accounting Institutes is a foolish thing.

ICAI will deprive the CA students of rural background of even basic IT / ISCA knowledge.

What kind of CA's will come up ? How will they appreciate the utility of Enterprise Resource Planning Softwares ?

Are we going back to BAHI-KHATA ??

If Indian CA's will leave/ignore this field, CMA and other finance courses will take advantage of this. If you have knowledge about practical issues of IT you will be valuable for any employer.

How many of CA students know about Cyber warfare,Crypto-Currencies like Bitcoin,The case of MegaUpload, The case of Edward Snowden : NSA revelations, Julian Assange:The revelations of Wikileaks, The latest cyber war between USA and North Korea over the movie " The Interview", The closure of Piratebay .

To understand the intricasies of these events/stories, knowledge of ISCA/IT is of utmost importance.

We have IT and ISCA right now.But majority of students have no clues about above topics.

Just imagine, what will happen when the knowledge of IT/ ISCA will be restricted to 2 three weeks trainings. This trainings will be a joke just like our GMCS I and II. Corporate world even doubt our 3 years training. Only Big4 training is given due respect.

If ICAI deletes ISCA, IT from its curriculum, the competitive advantage of a CA is bound to go down.

I want to ask you all : How many of you have done the accounting of Amalgamation and mergers ?

I can guarantee that not even 1% CA students have practical knowledge of Accounting of Amalgamation and Mergers as these cases are only given to Big 4 and top law firms.

So, Due to lack of practical exposure, should ICAI delete the topic from syllabus ??

I am from 1% who have practical exposure of SDLC, ERPs, Business Process Re-engineering. But if ICAI deletes ISCA, CA students will fail to learn even the basics, for which theory is most important.

A developer cannot audit Information systems. Do you really think a BCA or MCA or BTech or MTech has any knowledge of Business ?? All they know is programming. To design IS, knowledge of different functions of business is required.

Only CA has comprehensive knowledge of Business operations, laws.

Only a CA can forsee the business requirements of 10 years future.

Only a CA can integrate the business processes.

This is why ISACA certification holders are Chartered Accountants in absolute majority.

A developer even fails to understand the concept of Double Entry and you expect them to Audit Information System.

CA Himanshu Bansal (Risk Manager) (2345 Points)
Replied 16 February 2015

Dear Hammad Rashid, I fully endorse the emerging importance of clouds and paperless offices. I have nowhere disputed the importance of IT and I am not endorsing towards going to bahi-khata concepts. But dont you think there is some basic erring with the pattern and checking system of ISCA ? On the very onset, you are among 1% having knowledge of advanced levels in information systems field as you mentioned, then what is refraining you from qualifying CA ? Dont you think its the pattern and marking system of ISCA which is proving as a hurdle in your qualifying road to CA ? If they dont have system to judge properly in the ISCA, then its better to remove it.

(Guest)

Yes, you are absolutely right about pattern and marking system of ISCA paper.

But removal of the subject altogether, will be going to an extreme.

But questions like "Dont you think its the pattern and marking system of ISCA which is proving as a hurdle in your qualifying road to CA ? "

DO DEPRESS ME ALOT THESE DAYS.

1 Like

Arpan Nayak (Article Tax Consultant) (73 Points)
Replied 16 February 2015

ISCA seriously needs to be removed. Ofcourse, due to increasing usage of technology, the accounts are digitized so obviously there are enormous chances of getting the accounts tempered and consequently the audit getting affected malafidely.

HOWEVER, ISCA can be kept as an Optional Course after one finishes CA course successfully, not during the course of CA study. It is subjective whether one can understand or can cram it. So whether it is boon or torture, it can not be identified. Favorable people will favor it and Unfavorable will condemn its inclusion in the syllabus.. Even i feel it torturing, as during my PE II phase, only that subject made me appear for 5 consecutive attempts. Time Consuming Subject..

It is certainly time consuming one.

2 Like

mounika (semi qualified chartered accountant) (981 Points)
Replied 16 February 2015

I m so happy for my Jr who r attnding 16 xams.. Marks alloting pattern of isca is really becoming a hurdle to clear xams which is currently facing by me too. What ever may be d reason I m so happy with icai decision.

Prachi (Fresher ) (45 Points)
Replied 16 February 2015

Isca has very few topics that make sense collectively. I'm from commerce plus computers background. Have done all the designing and coding. Have designed websites and small erps (as a result of taking computer subjects seriously in graduation). But still i don't think what this subject contains is anywhere even close to making anyone understand computers or its environment. For eg, we all know what's cloud computing. Even for those who don't... they could be taught in one paragraph. But learning its characteristics, advs/disadvs, threats... Not even a single person i know remembers that stuff after papers. Mostly because its just plain theory. Infact its funny you know.... When ICAI itself is lacking in basic technologies in its working and professionalism, its providing students with such "cutting edge" syllabus. What happens when we visit ICAI or call them for help/questions. Do we see any of there staff even knowing, lest following, what cloud competing is. They don't even know many times how to use basic computer operation, and sometimes phones too. And a student who interacts with this institute again and again for its simple work faces such hurdles in getting through to the right person or dept. Do you think such person enjoys reading about latest technologies, as emphasized by the same institute?! Its like in a rural school, an English teacher himself/herself couldn't speak english and expects students to represent school outside with good English. Rather Funny. So in all... Neither the curriculum nor the background is conducive enough for this subject to prevail. Either ICAI should create an environment for it, improve its relevance, make it more practical.. Lest it should abolish it.

1 Like

Shalini (none) (105 Points)
Replied 16 February 2015

Most of the chapters in ISCA are good audit, protection, bcp etc. We can relate to it quite easily.. It's common sense put in technical terms which all of us must have as professionals even if we aren't going to pursue systems audit or development. My only problem is SDLC and to some extent governance and management chapter.. SDLC is bit too technical and the governance chapter is a little dry. Changing a few topics is a better idea, like emerging technologies was a welcome change.. All together removing it is a bad idea.

CA Himanshu Bansal (Risk Manager) (2345 Points)
Replied 16 February 2015

The role of IT and related topics cannot be debated, no doubt about it.

But the kind of marking done in the subject makes us think whether the purpose is being served or not.

2 Like

Shalini (none) (105 Points)
Replied 16 February 2015

Don't fret over what's not in your control. Just try to give what the examiners want and get out of this mess. After all our ultimate goal is to become CA.

Amol (Accounting) (432 Points)
Replied 17 February 2015

This is the Best post I have read on this topic ! Thank you Shalini.

Anoop (CA Final) (330 Points)
Replied 17 February 2015

Originally posted by : Arpan Nayak
	ISCA seriously needs to be removed. Ofcourse, due to increasing usage of technology, the accounts are digitized so obviously there are enormous chances of getting the accounts tempered and consequently the audit getting affected malafidely. HOWEVER, ISCA can be kept as an Optional Course after one finishes CA course successfully, not during the course of CA study. It is subjective whether one can understand or can cram it. So whether it is boon or torture, it can not be identified. Favorable people will favor it and Unfavorable will condemn its inclusion in the syllabus.. Even i feel it torturing, as during my PE II phase, only that subject made me appear for 5 consecutive attempts. Time Consuming Subject.. It is certainly time consuming one.

I totally endorse with your views...it can be kept as an option for those who are "interested" in that...obviously, it's not the cup of tea for all...then y shud it b forcibly made as a bottleneck for students to clear group-2...its not that isca is irrelevant, but there are better equipped IT professionals who have a hell lot of practical experience than a freshly qualified ca..and its a good move to introduce changes like capital markets and intl. taxation in grp-2.

Vishwas Surana (Intern) (53 Points)
Replied 17 February 2015

This subject should not be removed completely.. Infact it should be shaped in such a manner which include some pratical aspects of the subject.

CA Charu Hinger (Assistant Manager-Blue Dart Express Ltd) (70 Points)
Replied 17 February 2015

The subject should not be removed from the syllabus. As we are not given practical training in IT, it becomes necessary for us to atleast gain some theoritical knowledge..