harsh (nothing) (86 Points)
Replied 09 January 2012

Originally posted by : Raj Kumar Gupta
	Harsh You are 100% right . it is simple to find faullt in other.

Thanks sir for supporting my point.Further, Mr CMA. Pralay Chakrabort you still not give us the answer why u had recently changed ur avatar in your profile, Because the reason you know sir very well.Sir, one simple advice leave this type of conversation(as u had started many in this forum) as these conversation does bring fruitful results.

Further, sir check my profile am in this forum not since its inception but within a reasonable past.

harsh (nothing) (86 Points)
Replied 09 January 2012

Sir, know i may have a fear that my account too not banned as i had told the truth against Mr.CMA. Pralay Chakrabort.

Further, sir(Gupta sir) ready to listen the things against you as well as against myself as there are many accounts that may have been operated by a single person here who may know to come for supporting the other account.

But truth will prevail as correct like 24 carrot gold.Pardon if you dont like!!!!!

(Guest)

Harsh,

I did not start any type of such topic, but i replied to such topics, in the future there will be reply to such tooics, but it should be with facts and accuracy. Mot misleading and misinterpretation.

harsh (nothing) (86 Points)
Replied 09 January 2012

Originally posted by : Raj Kumar Gupta
	Harsh, I did not start any type of such topic, but i replied to such topics, in the future there will be reply to such tooics, but it should be with facts and accuracy. Mot misleading and misinterpretation.

Sir i didnt told you rather i told to mr CMA PRALAY.

CMA. Rakesh Kataria (Practising Cost Accountant) (531 Points)
Replied 09 January 2012

Dear Mr. Raj Kumar

I have received several mails from IMA members from USA, according to them as IMA refused to do tie up with CIMA, so to counter the same CIMA with the help of CPA launch this program. According to IMA members reputation of IMA is so good in USA that both CPA and CIMA cannot harm interest of IMA members.

In Canada, Management Accountants and Chartered Accountant have same recognitions; Management Accountants are allowed to sign balance sheets of companies. Since last one year both the institutes are in talks to unify the both institutes and form new institute, so let’s see what will be the result.

In India situation is different as compared to USA, and UK, see the below

ICWAI and ICAI both are statutory body formed under ACT of parliament
New companies bill will have equal opportunity for members of ICWAI and ICAI except Cost Audit is for ICWAI members and Financial Audit is for ICAI members, rest of areas both are equal.
In new Direct tax code both ICWAI and ICAI will be treated same, it is unconfirmed report from my own source.
In Indirect taxation area like VAT, Central Excise, Service tax , ICWAI and ICAI members have equal opportunity.

Management Accounting is vast subject, it needs to be promoted in Indian industry, and success of US and UK industry was entirely based on success of Management Accounting practices. If India wants to be Cost Competitive than needs to promote Management Accounting systems in the Industry.India needs to promote the Management Accounting, either by ICWAI or ICAI else by CIMA.

You can personally check how many CA finalist wants to in the area of Management Accounting, my 20 years of experience of working with so many CA’s indicates that only 5% CA’s are interested in this area. so let the ICWAI memebers can works in this area.

(Guest)

Dear Rakesh Sir,

Again i want to put my views with very humble,

You may be right , as you received main from IMA,

But i read the interview of CEO ,IMA , He surprised why US GOVT body ,which is largset in the world , and 125 years old, did do joint venture with them rather with CIMA UK.

May be IMA is not as large as CIMA or IMA is not govt recognised body?

But CPA are never having threath with CMA US , Sir CMA is not allowed in public practice , you know very well, but CPA work as Management Accountant in the world. There is survey ,almost 45% CPA are working as MA.

Earlier IMA wanted to have tie up woth AICPA , but It is AICPA did not respond them. Just go through the Interveiw of IMA CEO.

As you said situation of UK and US is different from India , Our GOVT may also think like you , hence they feel cost accounting is more required than MA now. In the future , any things can happen , whether ICAI/ICWA will lead for MA, it will be decided by GOVT, or any separate body?

(Guest)

Jeffrey Thomson

But when he learned about the American Institute of CPAs’ partnership with the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants to offer a new Chartered Global Management Accountant credential essentially for free, he cried foul (seeAICPA, CIMA Plan Push for New Management Credential).

Thomson recently sent a letter to Accounting Today outlining his concerns with the AICPA’s plans to “grandfather” CPAs who meet certain criteria into the program for three years and offer a free six-month auto enrollment period without any competency testing (see Coverage of CGMA Only Tells Half the Story).

Thomson also wanted to give his perspective in an interview. He emphasized up front that he “applauded” the AICPA for recognizing the value of management accounting, but objected to the way the AICPA and its joint venture partner, the CIMA, are essentially giving away the credential without any demonstration of real competency.

Do you feel like the AICPA has invaded your turf?

Thomson: At a really high level we actually applaud the AICPA, which has a 125-year-old history. We applaud the fact that they’ve recognized what we’ve recognized for 92 years, which is the importance of managerial accounting. Management accounting is what companies put a high value on, to manage their business, to grow their business, to sustain growth, to be transparent and protect the interests of investors. We’re talking about planning and analysis capabilities, M&A activity, risk management, internal controls, the more forward-looking, value-adding activities.

When an organization with the size and scope and stature of the AIPCA enters the profession of management accounting, we actually applaud what they’ve done. What we take issue with and have concerns about is the means by which they are certifying the competency of management accounting professionals who work in business. From a market perspective, when we think about the economy and organizational failures, whether they’re ethical lapses, or just bad business performance, organizations around the world more than ever need competent, certified properly qualified management accountants to help them drive performance and protect investors. While we applaud the AICPA’s entry into the management accounting profession, we don’t believe that the method by which they’re going to certify competency over the next three years is in fact going to assure that employers have the most credible, competent, trusted business advisors.

Would you have preferred that they chose your organization to partner with rather than the CIMA?

Thomson: Well, I’m not going to dodge the question, I’ll answer it. It’s really a good question for the AICPA. Just taking a step back, the concern we have is again from a market perspective, from an employer perspective, whether you’re Saudi Aramco or PetroChina or IBM, the concern we have is that in their process, in this joint venture, in the United States if you have a CPA and demonstrate three years of experience in management accounting and pay a fee, you get to call yourself a CGMA, a Chartered Global Management Accountant, which sounds good to an employer. It means that you’re fully competent and credible to sit at the table in financial decision making, but there isn’t any test. There is no assessment in that three–year period, and that’s what troubles us.

We believe the means to assure the most competent professional at the table is not only an experience requirement, not only appropriate undergraduate education, but to actually study for and pass a rigorous, relevant and focused exam. So in the most extreme example, let’s say you have a young person, they graduate college, they work for a couple of years for their local CPA, they pass the CPA Exam and become a member of the AICPA, and then, let’s say, become the controller of the local florist or local plumber. They work there for three years, and with that experience requirement, they can call themselves a CGMA. And we have concerns about that, and we respectfully believe that is not the best way to certify competency in such a critical set of skills for not only organizations, but for society.

On top of that, the joint venture has an auto-enrollment period where, as we understand it, in the United States, the AICPA will automatically award the CGMA by sort of data mining through their database. As we understand it, if you have three years of management accounting experience, you’re automatically granted the CGMA and later on you have to opt out. That just doesn’t hit us as the most professional means to certify competency and we mean that with all due respect. In terms of the AICPA choosing CIMA, you would have to ask them that. CIMA has had an 85-year head start on globalization. They started out in the U.K. and they currently have a larger global footprint, although we are doing very well globally. I believe the AICPA went to CIMA because as the AICPA grows internationally, they were looking to leverage CIMA’s global footprint.

Also, the other thing I would say, just to be a bit provocative, is that it’s pretty clear that these two organizations will merge and the AICPA will be the parent and the CIMA exam and the CIMA organization as we know it over time would go away. And perhaps the AICPA knows that the IMA has a long history. We’re proud of our CMA exam and perhaps they hypothesized that the IMA would not agree to being essentially subservient to a larger organization. I can only speculate on that. We were never approached, but at the end of the day, our larger concern is not about us, it’s not about the AICPA or CIMA. They’re two fine, respected associations. It’s about the employer and the organization and society having to be strengthened through credible, competent management accountants. That’s in essence our concern.

1 Like

harsh (nothing) (86 Points)
Replied 09 January 2012

Originally posted by : Raj Kumar Gupta
	Dear Rakesh Sir, Again i want to put my views with very humble, You may be right , as you received main from IMA, But i read the interview of CEO ,IMA , He surprised why US GOVT body ,which is largset in the world , and 125 years old, did do joint venture with them rather with CIMA UK. May be IMA is not as large as CIMA or IMA is not govt recognised body? But CPA are never having threath with CMA US , Sir CMA is not allowed in public practice , you know very well, but CPA as works Management Accountant in the world. There is survey ,almost 45% CPA are working as MA. Earlier IMA wanted to have tie up woth AICPA , but It is AICPA did not respond them. Just go through the Interveiw of IMA CEO. As you said situation of UK and US is different from India , Our GOVT may also think like you , hence they feel cost accounting is more required than MA now. In the future , any things can happen , whether ICAI/ICWA will lead for MA, it will be decided by GOVT, or any separate body?

100% AGREE

CMA. Rakesh Kataria (Practising Cost Accountant) (531 Points)
Replied 09 January 2012

I f you read the Mr. Thomson interview, it is back door entry of CPA memebrs with the help of CIMA without passing any exam.

India CA can do the same with the help of CIMA,

CIMA is doing all this to increase membership base any harming the Managment Accounting Profession.

(Guest)

Sir,

Debate should be focussed with fact and figures, not by personal mis interpretation and one should not be biased for any thins. AS CA i accept IIM Graduates are having more acceptance than CA in industries. This is not comparisions or misconceptions , but it is the fact , we all may accept or not. But again it is not we to decide which is good or bad. Each profession has its own unique features.

CMA. Rakesh Kataria (Practising Cost Accountant) (531 Points)
Replied 09 January 2012

AICPA president and CEO Barry Melancon questioned CIMA chief executive Charles Tilley about the value of the CGMA credential

(Guest)

Sir ,

I am very sorry to say that you are just biasing , Now you complaining the same CIMA body , which you gives regards as your origin Institute of ICWAI?

I am sorry sir. I am not able to comment on your replies.

ACMA-ICAI (DGM-Global Voice Business) (1052 Points)
Replied 09 January 2012

IMA Ready to Compete with AICPA/CIMA Management Accounting Designation

New management accounting designation, CGMA, will be launched in January by the AICPA and the CIMA.
The IMA, which offers the CMA credential, has issues with the CGMA designation.
President and CEO of the IMA does not agree with qualifications needed to become a CGMA.

The Institute of Management Accountants (IMA), which has offered the Certified Management Accountant (CMA) credential since 1972 and represents more than 60,000 accountants and financial professionals in business worldwide, is facing "fierce competition" from a new management accounting designation – Chartered Global Management Accountant (CGMA) – that will be launched by the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants (AICPA) and the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants (CIMA) in January 2012, according to Jeffrey Thomson, IMA President and Chief Executive Officer.

AICPA voting members will be automatically eligible for the credential upon verifying three years of qualifying experience. CPAs who are members of both the AICPA and their state CPA society will receive a special discounted annual fee to maintain the CGMA credential.

"While IMA welcomes these organizations' recognition of the important role of management accounting, we have some serious questions about the designation, and we intend to stand up and be counted," Thomson told AccountingWeb in a recent interview.

Thomson has questioned the length of the grandfathering period and the fact that AICPA members qualify without passing a test. He also objected to the automatic enrollment. "It is our understanding that they must opt out of the designation initially."

"Management accountants need to be able to make more judgmental analyses," Thomson said. "They need to pursue their credential and pass a rigorous, focused, relevant exam." He pointed out that in addition to passing a two-part exam, CMA candidates must fulfill both an education and experience requirement.

"At IMA, we are not just in the business of increasing our membership, although we are expanding our presence worldwide. We will continue to be focused on our mission, which is to respond to the market and to the needs of organizations and society."

"The market and organizations have shown a need for accounting professionals working in business to be prepared to analyze, plan, and budget, and to understand their obligation to investors and their role in preventing fraud. Studies have shown a talent management gap in forward-looking activities among finance professionals. We have an obligation to fill that gap."

"We expect finance and accounting personnel will choose to follow a professional management accounting path based on what the market and organizations have said that they need," Thomson said. "Surveys and focus groups have found that financial planners and individuals with knowledge of risk management, performance management, and measurement top the list of people they are looking to hire."

"Statistics show that a high percentage of students who graduate with accounting degrees will go into public accounting and perform audits, but after a few years they move into finance departments of companies of all sizes where they are responsible for planning and budgeting. They have learned to analyze historic information, but many will have had only one course in management accounting as part of their undergraduate degree in accounting. Working in public accounting is a great way to start one's career, but an accountant in business still needs to acquire management accounting skill sets," Thomson said.

"Working from a strong technical basis, the accountant working in finance needs to be able to go from data to decisions, from information to insights, and sit across the table as a trusted business advisor."

"To have a great career, a young professional with an accounting degree needs to develop a well-rounded set of skills, but those skills have value at any stage in a career. I became a Certified Management Accountant just two years ago after working in telecommunications for over twenty years, ending in a CFO role at AT&T. When I completed the suggested 150 hours of study per part, 300 hours total, for the CMA and passed both parts of the exam, I felt more competent, more rounded."

"An aspiring CMA needs to possess the skills to perform:

financial planning analysis,
strategic planning,
risk management,
mergers and acquisitions,
strategic costing, and
performance management and measurement."

Looking ahead, Thomson concluded that "the market will determine the future of management accountant credentials. But the market is not as rational as we would like, and it is very forgiving. When an organization has credibility and has reached a critical mass, people do not ask the tough questions, often building in inefficiencies."

CMA. Rakesh Kataria (Practising Cost Accountant) (531 Points)
Replied 09 January 2012

Even AICPA president question value of this qualification see the below:

AICPA president and CEO Barry Melancon questioned CIMA chief executive Charles Tilley about the value of the CGMA credential

(Guest)

Dear Rakesh Sir,

We all know it is CIMA ,which discovered MA , not CPA body or CA body , the global recognition of CIMA is far better than IMA US,. If you think CIMA is hariming Management Accounting , then no body any govt ,even IFAC can not save this profession.

CIMA is selling management Accounting certification ,and till date it has achieved its succes , see its presence in India

1)MBA (management Accounting ) = IGNOU + CIMA

2.)Advanced Dimploma = IIM Kolkata+CIMA

3.)CMA to CA India = Nine subjects exemptions to CA without any reciprocal exemtiions to CIMA members.

CIMA nevers belives in closed field for MA, It has hundres of Institutes , B schools to have joint ventures for MA certification.

CIMA nevers defined MA without accepting perview of CA/CPA in its domain.