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Income tax query very urgent

Sudarshan Bhattar (Student) (123 Points)

12 July 2012

Dear All,

During FY 01/04/2011-31/03/2012 I have the following income/loss:-
1)Commodity Trading Loss of Rs.12000/- in Multi Commodity Exchange of India Ltd
2)Intraday trading profit in NSE/BSE Rs.7500/-

Sir, I would like to know the followings:-
a)What will be tax implication on the above Profit / loss individually?
b)Can the loss be carried forward to subsequent year for set off?
c)Where the above to be shown in ITR2 of AY 2012-13?

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21 Replies

Dhawal Mohnot (Practicing) (449 Points)
Replied 12 July 2012

if this is the only income then you need not file your return at all. As Basic Exemption starts from Rs.180,000/-

CA Gaurav Choradia (Relationship Manager ) (418 Points)
Replied 12 July 2012

Dear Dhawal Munot i think you should read Income tax at least one more time.
as per your advice if he dont file return he couldnt claim loss in commodity loss.

Dear Sudarshan if u want to claim loss in commodity trade in subsequent years then you should file return before 31st of july 2012.
No tax has to pay in current year.

Next year loss from commodity can be setoff from the profit from commodity trading.

As your income will be taxed under the head Business & Prof. as proprietary so you should file ITR 4.

1 Like

Dhawal Mohnot (Practicing) (449 Points)
Replied 12 July 2012

My friend I would definitely read it more than once. Don worry at all. But as per income tax guidelines return would be accepted only if an assessee has a taxable income. For a learned person that you are, I would still request you to fill in these 2 amounts in the excel utility downloaded from IT website and file the same and revert if it gets uploaded. Thanks.

vkbothra (Learning ) (690 Points)
Replied 12 July 2012

@ Dhawal Mohnot, Can you plz copy and paste that part of that guidline ?

and for you kind information, IT department even accept return for Loss, coz this will be the proof of His/Her loss return and he can claim Losses in upcoming years..

and one more thing, Inspire them to submit return even if it is of loss, coz it shows the statatics (data) of our Indian Govt. which is having value when India participate in World level meetings.

and like to say, download that excel utility and fill up with loss income, it will get uploaded for sure :)

Dhawal Mohnot (Practicing) (449 Points)
Replied 12 July 2012

My friend are u trying to say that a person should file income tax return even if he does not have any income ... Are you trying to say that this person should file a loss return of rs.4000 (which in no way woould effect the macro indian data) .. Why is this unnecessary compliance required .. I do und that loss return should be filed to enable carry forward .... But are you saying 4000 is gonna make any difference ... Let's talk practical and not get sentimental ...

Dhawal Mohnot (Practicing) (449 Points)
Replied 12 July 2012

As for the guideline .. Well you are learned enough to understand that the basic intention of the statute is to tax income above taxable limit .. If you want that also to be written somewhere .. Then pls get in touch with the person who framed the law ....

MAHESH GARG (AUDIT EXECUTIVE) (334 Points)
Replied 12 July 2012

Dear Gaurav Choradia and VKbothra

I would like to say that

There are some Stupid, Thick head and stubborn peoples who speak or argue without any knowledge. Neither they accept their mistake nor they try to learn from their mistake. Just Don't bother about them.

Time will make them pay.

Coming to the query

Dear Sudarshan Ji

if you want to carry forward your loss just go by the view of brother Gaurav Choradia.

Also you cannot use ITR 2 you will have to use ITR 4 to file your return.

Any further doubt if arises please ask definitely.

Regards.

Note: - the following info. is to help those who lack basic knowledge of Income Tax Act.

For Loss Return assessee needs to keep in mind Section 139(3) read with section 80 of income tax act.

Sec.139(3) - If a person has sustained loss under the head "Profit and Gains of business or profession" or under the head "Capital Gains" and claims that such loss should be carried forward under section 72 or sec.73 or sec.74 or sec.74A, then he may furnish a return of loss within the time prescribed under section 139(1) and all provisions of Income tax Act shall apply as if it were a return furnished under section 139(1).

Sec. 80 - Notwithstanding anything contained in Chapter VI, the loss which has not been determined in pursuance of a return filed in accordance with the provisions of section 139(3), shall not be allowed to be carried forward and set off under section 72 or section 73 or section 74 or section 74A.

2 Like

Parihar Gopal (Corporate Taxation ) (392 Points)
Replied 13 July 2012

i am fully conviced with Mr Garav & Mahesh Garg

Sudarshan Bhattar (Student) (123 Points)
Replied 13 July 2012

Dear All

Thanks for your advice i am restating my query with other details also and as such i think i have to file ITR-2:-

a) capital gains (long-Rs.111416 & short-Rs.13570) on securities

b) income from dividend Rs.131679 and interest Rs.224464

c)Commodity Trading Loss of Rs.12000/- in Multi Commodity Exchange of India Ltd.

d)Intraday Share trading profit in NSE/BSE Rs.7500/-

I would like to know the followings:-

a)What will be tax implication on the above Profit / loss?
b)Can the loss in commodity trading be carried forward to subsequent year for set off and where to show the same in ITR-2?
c)Where the Intraday Income above to be shown in ITR2 of AY 2012-13?

Please advice accordingly and sorry for the inconvenience caused to you

Dhawal Mohnot (Practicing) (449 Points)
Replied 13 July 2012

Mr.Sudharshan... had you mentioned Point A & B earlier would have definitely requested you to file the return. The reason why i commented not to file was becasue just showing a carry forward loss of Rs.4,500/- would involve unnecessary paper work and complaince.

To all those who have commented on top (Without any mention of names) just understand the bonafide of a person before abusing and corrugating anyone. Always maintain dignity and spirit of our profession. We all are learning.

MAHESH GARG (AUDIT EXECUTIVE) (334 Points)
Replied 13 July 2012

Dear Sudarshan

ITR 2 is for Individuals and HUFs not having Income from Business or Profession.

in your case you have loss on commodity trading and Intraday Trading Profit which is taxable under the head income from Business or Profession. Therefore you will have to file your return in ITR 4

MAHESH GARG (AUDIT EXECUTIVE) (334 Points)
Replied 13 July 2012

Profit and gains from business or profession:

income from speculative business

Commodity Trading Loss (12000)

Intraday Share trading profit 7500

Loss to be carried forward to be set off in next year (4500) NIL

against speculative income

Income from Capital Gains:

LTCG (Assumed STT paid) 111416

Less: Exempt u/s. 10(38) 111416

NIL

STCG (Assumed STT paid) u/s. 111A 13570

13570 13570

Income from Other Sources:

Interest Income 224464

Dividend Income 131679

356143

Less: Dividend Income Exempt u/s.10(34) (131679)

224464 224464

Gross Total Income 238034

Assumptions taken:

1) Commodity Trading Loss assumed to be Income from speculative Business. Speculative transaction are those transaction in which purchase and sale of any commodity including stocks and shares is periodically or ultimately settled otherwise than by actual delivery or transfer of the commodity or scrip.

2) LTCG and STCG on securities assumed to be on purchase and sale of securities through a recognised stock exchange and thereby STT is already deducted.

Note: -

1) Specualtive Loss can be set off against Speculative income only in the current year. And the loss to the extent not set off can be carried forward for set off against Speculative income of future years which cannot be more than 4 years.

2) If STCG (as assumed) is under sec.111A then it will be taxable at the rate of 15% otherwise at normal slab rates.

2 Like

CA Sunil Kumar Parjapati (ACA Senior Manager- Accounts & Finance) (224 Points)
Replied 13 July 2012

Mr. Dhawal ,

You are totally going through line by line as per LAW.

But u are not able to understand the views of people who have so much of practical exposure in this field.

So its better not to argue or show ur attitude ....

You should Clear your knowledge first then come into discussion part.

As far as the question is concerned , In order to carry forward the loss , the assessee has to file the loss Return under section 139 (4) .

dattatreyahg (actor) (34 Points)
Replied 14 July 2012

Dear Mahesh Garg, Please help me with advice. I am following CASH method of acctng all along. I am an Actor in TV Serial. I received a cheque d/d 26 April 2012(credited in my bank a/c on 30 April 2012) for my work done in March 2012. But this has been shown in Form 16 A for a/y 2012-13 as "paid/credited"on 31 March 2012. "Date on which Tax(TDS) deposited is shown as26/05/2012. Status of booking is "matched". These are reflected in the same way in Form 26AS also for a/y 2012-13. My queries are:--- (1)Should I mandatorily show this as income in my IT Return of a/y 2012-13 because it is shown in Form16A and Form 26AS in a/y 2012-13(even though I have physically received it in a/y 2013-14) ? (2) If I should show this in a/y2013-14(as I am follwing CASH method of acctng),can I claim this TDS credit in my IT Return for a/y 2013-14 even though it is shown in form 16A and Form 26 AS in a/y 2012-13? PLease treat it as urgent as I have to file my Return by 31 july 2012. I cant postpone it as I have carry-forward losses to be booked and I dont come under compulsory audit. DATTATREYA H G